The H. H. Franklin Club

Answers and Questions Page #10

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December 29, 2007

Dec. 29, 2007

QUESTION:GENERATOR CUT OFF 1929

Hi Tom:
The cut-out on my generator is probably fine - the resistances seem correct,and the points are good. However, it would seem wise to have a spare. My local NAPA store lists it - Delco Remy CU3, for generator 945Y. However, their computer says that there is no one in the country that stocks it. Presumably, that means no one on their list of suppliers. Do you have any more information? Is there an antique Delco Remy specialist somewhere, as there is for Lucas stuff?
Happy New Year!.
Regards, John

ANSWER:GENERATOR CUT OFF 1929

Hi John -

You are best off with an original period Delco cutout. The new ones are far from robust. They are plentiful - you can find used units at almost any swap meet. If yours is in good shape, it may well last another 78 years. Nice to have a spare, though.

Same to you for the new year!

tom

Dec. 28, 2007

QUESTION: ELECTRIC STARTER ON A 1910 MODEL G

Dear Tom,

You may treat this question as one for the Franklin Club Q&A Section or a personal inquiry as you see fit. Twenty years ago, I would have been horrified if someone asked what I am about to ask, but our age and physical limitations certainly can change our perspective.

I rotate among my Franklins which I will be using and showing for a car show season. In 2006, I successfully showed my 1910 Model G Franklin at the Ault Park Concours and but in the process of starting it, friends feared the cranking process might give me cardiac problems before the car started. Ruptured discs, arthritis in many joints, and shot knees made it a major physical challenge for me to hand crank the car. I imagine that by the 2008 season when I hope to show the car at the Hilton Head Concours, it may be impossible for me. Though, it irritates my purist tendencies, I am wondering if it would be possible to fit an electric starter to the car in some way that it could be removed by subsequent owners and not leave the car drastically altered. I love the early brass cars and would like to continue enjoying my Model G but short of finding a younger more fit person to travel with me and start the car, I see few options. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have.

Thanks,
Randy

ANSWER: ELECTRIC STARTER ON A 1910 MODEL G

Hi Randy -

Nice to hear from you. I am glad you are having fun with the G.

My first response is to say that a 1910 G should start quite easily on the crank, not requiring a lot of exertion. It's a relatively small engine without a lot of compression and they are noted for easy starting with a good magneto and proper carburetion & tuning. They can be difficult to start when HOT without having followed HOT starting procedures.

Having said that - a starter can be a very nice thing. For some it is a necessity, perhaps due to physical needs, or maybe just ease of use (or emotional needs?!)

The least invasive method that I have seen (and done on one car, non-Franklin) is to use the intermediate shaft between the clutch and transmission, attaching a sprocket to this shaft and then driving it with a starter. I used a starter/generator from a lawn tractor with a silent timing belt. It was fairly simple, but did take some ingenuity to fabricate brackets to locate the starter/generator.

There are very small, high torque starters used in the racing industry - Tilton is one brand. I have seen these attached to the front of a car, in place of the crank handle. Not as elegant, and it shows, but a good, solid installation.

I also have always wondered about a racing hand-held starter that would engage in the crank snout. A small battery booster pack and a hand-held would likely spin a G over just fine. One would need slots in the front cheek piece crank snout to engage with pins in the starter unit to eliminate the need for the operator to manually counteract the torque. Or maybe the torque would be low enough and wide handles would be enough.

Chet Zimmerman put a starter on his 1910 D - so there is a possible source of information.

You might work on getting the stock system to start more easily - it really should. If you decide to take the step of installing a starting system, keep me posted as I am interested in what you work out.

Send me a photo of your car - Maybe I'll make it to Hilton Head next year and see it.

Best Wishes for the Holidays and New Year!

tom

Dec. 27, 2007

QUESTION: CHROME OR NICKEL

Hi Tom,

Quick question: When correct, does a Series 12-B Franklin use chrome or nickel on the brightwork?

Thanks -- Scott

ANSWER: CHROME OR NICKEL

Quick answer: Watts, Sulfamate or Soft Nickel. No Chrome on a Franklin until 1929
tom

Dec. 24, 2007

QUESTION: REBUILDING OF THE FAN SERIES 16

Hi Tom
Well I suppose you will be like us right now ! on count down for the festive season ? We are just about ready , how about you ? We find that the older we get the less we do to- wards it . But look forward to a couple of days with our grandchildren.
Never the less before I become incapacitated , curiosity has got the better of me , and I wanted to have a look inside that radiator area , I have never been in there before . So after adjusting the brakes to-day I decided to have the hood off , badge bar and radiator off to have a good look and be able to think about the job in hand when it comes round . I did decide to go down the Don Kitchen road as you suggested. I have been in touch with Don, and he will ship in the New Year .
First to strip it down , Then have a look at the parts from Don when they come to see if I can have it riveted locally. and if not come back to you for the kit you have suggested. Oh by the way Don is out of material at the moment but hopes to re stock in the early new year, if the snow allows him to get out. Well that was the plan , it just sounded straight forward and I thought reasonably easy !! GUESS NOT . 1st . When I looked inside I thought how the hell do I get in to start ? and 2nd to the average guy , and not the expert because I don't know what I am looking for ? It all looked pretty good and sound to me , so I thought that I had better send you some repetitive pictures to look at to see if you can advise me on many points. Then I will give you a ring to have a chat about it. I do hope that Lee has got it right because it seemed pretty good inside to me ? A lot of work for a vibration at the top end ? Are there any special tools required for this job ? Have you closed shop now until the New Year ? and are you ready to play Santa ?? Regards Eric.

Pictures of Eric's fan, click here to view.

ANSWER: REBUILDING OF THE FAN SERIES 16

Hi Eric -

I'm glad you are geared up for the big day. I still have some shopping to do, but am almost ready. And here I am at work, attending to a few details on customer projects (and hoping to steal some time to do some work on my own 1910...)

I am glad you are digging into the fan. It really is not all that difficult - looks like a lot of work, but it's all pretty straightforward. Here's my suggested method:

The bumper must come off
The front splash apron must be pulled forward enough to allow room for the fan to come off. To do this remove the four LONG bolts that go through the upper sides of the apron, then chassis frame rail, front fender lower inside edge and finally the front fender braces at the chassis frame rail.

Loosen the hood shelf extensions (under the headlamp mounts) by removing the two large slotted screws at the front of the headlamp mount bases to the hood shelf. One is a long screw with a nut on the underside of the frame. The other is a wood screw - same large head size.

With these fasteners out, the front apron may be slid forward. It might be a bit stuck and could take some jostling to get it to move. You need not remove it, only pull it forward 6-8".

Now remove the sheet metal blower venturi from the fan housing blower opening.

The fan is held on by a large nut. This nut is locked by use of the crank snout - the extension in which the hand crank engages. This snout has a hole in the side of its body. The most common method for removal of this is to use a pipe that will slide over the snout. A hole in the pipe aligns with the hole in the snout. Insert a bolt in this hole. Another hole at the other end of the pipe allows for a drift, or bar to be inserted. Use this as a T-handle to unscrew the snout. One can also use a pipe wrench on the pipe extension. The snout is a regular right hand thread and should come off fairly easily once broken loose. Put the car in gear with the brake on.

Now you've got your battered nut to deal with.
A socket is required. Resist the temptation to remove it with a chisel like the previous repair guys - as evidenced by your photos. You might get it off with a chisel, but you cannot install it tight enough.

It is possible to get a very large crescent or monkey wrench on the nut as well. You will have to see what you can some up with that will fit. Let me know if you get stuck. I can pass along some other ideas.

Once the nut is off, look for a copper washer between the nut and the fan - save this.

Now the fan can be removed with a puller that uses two holes in the fan hub drilled and tapped for a puller. (didn't I tell you this was easy??)

The fan will pull off the crank.

When you install the new centers in the fan, be sure to index the fan with the key way cut into the fan hub or your timing mark on the fan rim will not align.

The only parts that might prove tricky are getting the nut off and pulling the fan - if you do not have tools readily available. You can improvise removing the nut, but the fan will require a puller - no way around that. If you get stuck, let me know and I can offer some alternative suggestions/solutions.

It's not as bad as it sounds, so you might as well do as much as you can - one step at a time.

Have a wonderful Christmas Eric and don't hesitate to email or phone if you get stuck.

We've had wonderful snow this December - got another 5" over the weekend. I tried to get a Franklin out for a photo with all the fresh snow, but it was blowing and drifting too much. Today is bright and sunny, maybe I'll try to get a photo.

tom

Dec. 19, 2007

QUESTION/ANSWER: 1910 BOSCH DU4 MAGNETO TEST

For the sharp eyed followers of this Q&A, the following was imbedded in
an exchange between Tom and me that was subsequently withdrawn at my
request. This seems an appropriate place for this discussion given the
informal nature of the Q&A section.

Out of curiosity, I rigged a 1000:1 voltage probe to a storage
oscilloscope to see what the Bosch DU4 magneto on my 1910 Franklin
would look like under various conditions. I offer them for your study
with a minimal amount of commentary. All of the traces were taken
using a spark plug with a 0.025 gap.

There are many aspects of these traces that surprised me since none of
them correspond to textbook illustrations. After study and
consideration, the main conclusion that I came away with is that these
magnetos are GREAT ignition devices.

Cranking in air, no compression: A high volt spike establishes
ionization in the gap. This is followed by uncounted lower voltage
oscillations sustained over 3 milliseconds as the energy of the magnetic
and electric fields within the magneto are dissipated through the
plasma. There is known artifact of this particular scope seen at about 2
ms out. It is not a time of zero voltage.

Cranking under compression with the throttle open but the gasoline
needle valve turned off: On both cylinders 1 and 2 the voltages are
much higher than when in free air as expected due to the insulating
properties of the compressed air. This higher density of the air
quenches the arc between oscillations requiring essentially the same
voltage to re-establish the arc on each swing. The lower voltage on
the trace for #2 reveals a lower compression in #2 than the rest of the
cylinders.

Running at Idle, time expand by a factor of 10 to show detail of the
actual spark. This is more characteristic of an engine analyzer and
shows the classic very high voltage initiating pulse and a sustaining
plasma of the burning gasses at negligible voltage. No quenching is seen
at all.

Note the polarity of the sparks. On a shuttle wound magneto such as a
DU4, half of the cylinders will fire positive and half negative but I am
somewhat surprised that the second half, or rebound, of the initial
oscillation shows the highest voltage in all events.
Bouvard Hosticka

Dec. 13, 2007

From time to time we all give advise on companys to use or that we have used with great service. Here is a note from a club member who used one:

I want to thank you for your strong recommendation of "Then and Now" for fuel pump rebuild.

I went by there on the way to Galen Green's just before Thanksgiving and left off a box of S14 fuel pump parts so they could build up two for me. Mike Casella there has been great to work with, sending and answering clarifying emails often on his own time from home. We've clarified the "clock position" of the upper chamber; I emailed copies of fuel pump pictures from the sales brochure. He has just sent pictures of the finished pumps and son, Steven, will pick them up later this week. The sales room of NOS parts is interesting, but Mike ushered me behind the scenes into the machine shop and gave a cordial tour. Steven is looking forward to that same tour when he stops by.

Feel free to put any of these comments on the web site; I know others will be interested.

All the best for the Christmas season. We're enjoying warm weather here in Florida.

Hank

http://www.then-now.com/The_Cellar/cellar.htm

Dec. 11, 2007

See "SERIES 12 SILL" below

Dec. 5, 2007

QUESTION: 1906-1909 CYLINDER TEMPS

Hi Tom,
I had the ’07 out for a run on Sunday. It was about 34 degrees and light snow flurries. Wow…what a ride! It’s really amazing the difference it makes with the colder air temperature In how much longer it takes that motor to warm up to operating temp! I’m starting to think about getting going on making the top for the car. The first order of business is going to be making up the castings at the bottom of the sockets where they pivot together. I might end up having to get some detail photos and measurements from you off yours or Jeff’s car. Did you ever comparethem to see if they’re the same? Once I get them made I can send them off to John Boorinakis to have the sockets fab’d.

More later,

Bob

ANSWER: 1906-1909 CYLINDER TEMPS

Hi Bob -

There's no more old car driving for us this year - too much snow. In my earlier years, I drove a lot in the snow, then spent a day cleaning to get the nasty stuff off as we have tons of salt up here. Sometimes I can catch the fresh snow as it's falling - nice deep power with no salt. I like cleaning less and less though... I have often wanted to get a 1911-13 Ford with a Rootlieb body and keep it for pounding through mud, snow, ice, woods, whatever. Something I would not worry about. I don't have a Franklin that I would just leave dirty right now but I have done it most in my 1913.

On my '07, I have trouble getting the #1 cylinder warm enough - even in warm weather. In fact, it runs so cool that the oil tends to get significant condensate in the front pocket and never gets hot enough to burn this off. This has lead to some corrosion inside the engine over the years. I wonder if other 1906 - 1909 Franklins have this problem. You might pull a side cover off and take a look at the oil in #1. Mine is always milky and frothy. I Gave a fresh hone and new rings to the cylinders last summer, so I know the rings seal as well as can be expected. There is always some blow-by and some condensate in the blow-by.

I did look at Jeff's top and determined that his and mine were the same.

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 12 SILLS

Hello Paul,

I now have all my white ash boards glued together using T88 epoxy adhesive. I chose to use 5" & 6" wide boards so I have the A and B configurations of the 31236 drawing. This gives me the #5 or #6 combination to chose from when cutting out the sill.

When I laid my 31236 sill template on the 11" wide board I was surprised how much waste there was going to be. The template is only 9-1/4" high, at the tallest point, so with the additional width I bought to get the 5" and 6" widths, I am wasting well over 2" of width! I guess ash was cheap in 1928.

Anyway, this gives me plenty of latitude in the vertical placement of my template.

I can find nothing on the drawings to give me dimensioned guidance as the where the butt joints between the 5" & 6" boards should be placed. The 31236 drawing has views A, B, C and D with the sill shape shown but this is only a "cartoon" without dimensions for the sill placement. Actually, it is quite misleading because it shows the sill uses almost the complete 11" width.

On my old sills, I can see where the board butt joints are placed but, as I have told you previously, I strongly doubt that these are original sills on my car.

Can I gain anything by the strategic placement of the board joints and, if so, your recommendation please? Obviously, I will make the left and right members the same!

Colin

Paul,

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me put my question another way.

The right sill on my 12B had failed where the butt joints of the outer plies came to the surface on the underside of the sill in front of the rear engine mount. I don't know what kind of glue was used but that was apparently a weak point in that rail.

So for maximum strength, possibly it is undesirable that the butt joints intersect either the upper or lower surfaces?

I can actually locate the template on my new lay-up in such a way that neither the outer or the inner butt joints intersect either the lower or upper surfaces of the sill.

Could this be the most desirable position from a strength viewpoint? Or should I care?

Colin

ANSWER: SERIES 12 SILLS

Colin,

Yes, there was alot of wasted wood making the Series 11 - 12 "drop" type sills. But I doubt it was truly wasted. Most likely Franklin used the cut-offs for other purposes such as fueling furnaces. They were probably "Greener" than we know because, like today, there was potential money to be had in waste wood, and money lost if they let it pile up.

Butt joints........

So as not to confuse anyone who may read this on the web site, we're talking "edge" joints of the planks that are to make up the individual laminations of each chassis sill. The most common usage of the term, "butt joint" in wood working means end grain of one board to end grain of another board type of a joint.

Somewhere I read that Casein glue, aka "Milk glue" was commonly used in auto body wood construction. The glue in original sills appear to be just like old Casein used in the body framing. I assume that's what Franklin used.

Casein was slightly better than "hide glue", but still it was not as strong, or water proof as most modern wood glues, especially Epoxy, or Resorcinol glues. The sills had to design around Casein glue's limitations. One way was no edge joints next to each other.
The assumption was that the joints were not as strong as the wood itself. Not true anymore with good quality modern adhesives, but staggering the joints is still done by many wood workers. The edge joint of one lamination should not line up with the edge joint of the lamination(s) along side of it within that sill. That way the joints didn't line up to cause potential weakness or a "fault line".

Another way was by installing 24 large, flat head wood screws in each sill to help hold the laminations together. They may have also used the screws to help with lamination alignment as the glue dried.

Yet another was to seal the sills with creosote to try to keep water out. Water can weaken Casein glue joints causing them to fail.

If you look at drawing 31236 the edge joint location dimensions are at the right edge of views A, B, C, and D. They correlate to the combinations block in the lower left corner of drawing # 40126.

Just in case you don't have drawing #40126, that block states the following ;

Any Of The Following Combinations of 31236 Are Permissible In Construction.
No. Outside Center
1. 2-C A
2. 2-D B
3. 2-A C
4. 2-B D
5. 2-A B
6. 2-B A
7. A & B C
8. A & B D

Hope this helps.

Paul Fitz

Hi Paul,

Apologies, but I don’t think I got an answer to my question.

Each view A, B, C and D of drawing 31236 shows an outline of the sill and, while the views define the board widths, there are no dimensions locating the sill itself. That's why I referred to it as a cartoon - which is what we called an un-dimensioned informational view when I was drafting. I am actually using combination 6 which is 2 B's sandwiching an A.

So, my question is, where did the draughtsman intend me to place the template I have made, on the wood that I have glued together? The highest I can place it is such that the baseline he drew in 31236, is the upper edge of the board. I could move it lower and rotate it slightly such that none of the 3 edge joints intersect the top or bottom faces of the sill like they do in views A and B.

I understand and appreciate your comments concerning the strength of edge joints using modern adhesives, so maybe you are telling me that I can place the template wherever I want to and that I should not be concerned whether or where the edge joints intersect the top and bottom faces of the sill.

However, if the bonded edge joints are stronger that the parent wood, then, if by strategic placement of the template I can get them to run the full length of the sill, won't I be gaining something in strength?

Sorry to be such a bore!

Colin

Colin,
Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Having been both draftsman and carpenter I take certain info for granted. The importance of certain details, or lack of, in the drawings is a matter of perspective.

Why?
Looking closely at views A, B, C, and D you'll see the outline of the sill does not touch any of the outline of the boards. From a draftsman's point of view there should be some measurement in reference to the base line, or other point, so as to know how far from the plank edge the sill outline should be. Disconcerting to a draftsman, but not to the carpenter the drawings are meant to guide.

From the perspective of a carpenter - he is going to lay a template on a stack of glued together planks, just like your going to do. His, (and your) only concerns are keeping successive edge joints from lining up within a stack during glue-up, and next, with keeping the sill template away from all outer edges of the laminations unless the drawing specifies otherwise .......which it doesn't because it shows an un-dimensioned gap at all edges of the sill outline. As you know lack of info on a drawing usually means two things - the draftsman and his checker both missed it (doubtful that would get past both) , or as in this case, the info is not necessary to how the carpenter carries out his part.

The reason for showing those gaps in the drawing is that way the carpenter knows he can place the template in from all board edges which is preferable when cutting using a bandsaw. It's easier to follow close to a line accurately when the cut-to line is not starting, or finishing at a shallow angle at the edge of a board. Cutting in, or out, on shallow angles tends to turn the bandsaw blade out toward the board edge before you want it to.

As far as strength, placement of the edge joints, and also your template, is not that critical. However, since the edge joints can be seen once the sills are installed, I think it's good that your using one of the original recommended combinations. After all the work you've put into getting these sills as close to factory spec as possible, you might as well stick with that mind-set - it can only add to the historic value of the car.

How'd I do that time ?????

Paul Fitz.

Morning Paul,

When removing the "dumb irons" (metal end pieces) from the front end of my old sills I had noticed there was a heavy paper or gasket-like material between the metal and the sill. Due to the poor fit of the metal ends I thought that this was an effort to improve the fit by the person who originally replaced these sills. I have now checked my parts car (which has never had this area disturbed) I found there is a similar material there too. It has the appearance of heavy parchment.

What was there, has deteriorated to the point of being useless. Do you know what the material is, and its purpose (i.e. do I really need to replace it at all)?

As always, your help is sincerely appreciated.

Colin

Colin,
It was graphited (asbestos) paper. You should find evidence of it under the rear chassis steel frame, and the running board brackets also.

Franklin, Walker and other body builders used some form of graphite impregnated paper alot as an anti-squeak where ever steel came in contact with wood. With exception being that Walker used white lead paint under most of the cast steel body re-enforcements. In almost every instance the paper absorbed water/moisture and contributed to rust. For that reason I don't use any kind of paper that can absorb moisture when re-doing structural wood.

Some of the custom body builders such as Derham used waxed linen instead of graphited paper, which is what I use.

Paul Fitz.

A question from around the world

QUESTION: PAINT COLOUR 1925

Dear Franklin club,

We are restauring an Franklin vehicule, with following typicals;

Franklin
year : 1925
model : 11 - A sedan
BRLC Body number 1304
chassis number : 157723-11

The car is entirly restaured and is ready for the exterior painting. That' s the problem, we don't have the original paint of the car because that was gone.
Do you have any numbers of original colours of pictures from cars of the franklin club with the typicals above (1925).

I' ll thank you by forehand and many congratulations with the site.

Vandoorne Paul
Amersveldestraat 160
8610 Handzame - Kortemark
BELGIUM (country)
fax : 003251/545158
tel : 003251/566064

ANSWER: PAINT COLOUR 1925

Dear Mr. Vandoorne,

The only original Series 11 A's that I've seen were either medium-dark green with black fenders and aprons, or all black. What other color choices were available in 1925 I don't know.

The few times I've seen original paint color left on a Franklin, and was able to compare it to color drawings shown in the Franklin Dealer Sales Catalogs, the colors, while not exact, were surprisingly close. I don't have any Catalogs, but maybe one of our members with 1925 literature will read this and see if they have any color listings in Franklin Sales Catalogs and contact either of us.

As far as color mixing information, there are no listings of Franklin colors in paint company color libraries, so no way to find out what a color would turn out to be even if you could come up with a color name from Franklin literature. Another problem with color libraries is their search may find the same color name, but it's listed under a different auto maker. Sometimes the same unique color name was used by more than one auto maker, but each used a modified version of the color. Example being Ford's Copra Drab is very different than Franklin's Copra Drab.

Sometimes Franklin used colors that were very similar to what other auto makers used, but changed the name so there is no way to know what other auto makers color is close.

I think your best chance at coming close to original colors is to try and buy, or find someone who will loan you, or can make an accurate color copy of a Series 11A Sales catalog - then have an auto paint store mix a color by eye.

Good luck,

Paul Fitz.

Dear Mr. Fitz,

I'll thank you - and also Mr. Frank Hantak of course - very much for the information you give to us. For us it's a great help because the aren't many Franklins in our country and there's no information to find about it. We know one Franklin 11 A Sedan from 1926 not far from here, but he's repainted in another color, i think the colour isn't original but it's very nice. The body is dark green and the fenders are black. I think that i take also a green colour, if you see also in America a similar car 11 A. IF one of the members contact you Mr. Fitz, may I ask you to send a message to us.

I'll thank you beforehand,

Vandoorne Paul
Amersveldestraat 160
8610 Handzame - Kortemark
BELGIUM (country)
fax : 003251/545158
tel : 003251/566064

Dear Mr. Vandoorne,

Green (most often combined with black fenders and aprons) was a popular color choice all through the 1920's into the early 1930's. You can't go wrong with a nice rich green. There were probably several shades of green available. I should think you would find one close to your likes.

If your not able to get a look at a 1925 Franklin Dealer Catalog, I would recommend looking through the many pictures posted on the Franklin Club's website. You may just find an original car with a green you like. Then it's just a matter of having a paint shop copy that color.

If I find any pictures of mid 1920's Franklins in what appear to be original color I'll contact you.

Paul Fitz.

Nov. 27, 2007

QUESTION: SERIES 11-A VALVE SIZE

Where can I find specifications for Series 11-A valves. Need to know head diameter, stem diameter, length, and seat angle. The parts books indicates different numbers for intake and exhaust, but the valves appear to be the same?

Thanks, John

ANSWER: SERIES 11-A VALVE SIZE

Hi John -

Valve Head Dia 1.500"
Stem approx 0.340"
Overall length approx 4.9375
Seat angle 45 degrees

These are measurements taken from stock valves. I do not have the factory drawing handy, but they are available.

The intake and exhaust vales are dimensionally identical. The valves were originally of different materials, hence the different part numbers.

The Chevrolet 283 engine valve is exactly the same dimensionally as the Franklin valve from 1916 to 1927 and is an excellent and cost effective substitute.
Drawbacks are:
It has keeper grooves for modern keepers. One can run modern retainers and keepers if desired, but modern retainers are costly.
One can also drill a 1/8" hole for the original keeper pin and another hole for the safety cotter pin. These are a bit tough to drill - use carbide bits.
It also needs to have material machined away under the head as the extra 'meat' will interfere with the exhaust guide.

Egge Machine makes valves that are dimensionally correct and readily available as an alternative. Cost is high, but the valves are excellent quality.

I hope this is what you were looking for. Feel free to contact me for more information if needed..

tom

Nov 15, 2007

SEE UPHOLSTRY Nov9 below

Nov. 9, 2007

QUESTION: 1930 SERIES 14 STEERING BOX

I am a new member of the H.H. Franklin Club and now the owner of a 1930 Franklin with very bad 'curb to curb' steering. Last week I had the car delivered by transport to Club members home in Lockport N.Y. I drove it from there to Toronto, where I live, about 150 miles, on a temporary 10 day Ontario license permit. I concluded that I would not even try to get the car safety certified, a requirement for being able to license the car in Ontario, until the steering was fixed. King pins, tie rod ends and steering arm connections seem fine, so I suspect the steering gear box. The previous owner, is also of the opinion that the car needs the steering box rebuilt. I suppose it is possible that the existing steering box could be adjusted to get the steering play down to a reasonable degree, but I have my doubts. I have the March 2005 issue of "Air Cooled News" with the article on the Gemmer Steering Box. My situation is that I won't be able to remove the steering box from the car until spring. The car is going into winter storage in a barn with other cars before my temporary 10 day license permit runs out. The cars all go in more or less at the same time, and once in I can't work on the car. When the car comes out in the spring I want to tackle the steering first. I plan to get another 10 day license permit in the spring, immediately do the steering work and then get the car safety certified. So I am looking for a way to get a new steering box installed quickly. Would it be possible to do an exchange where I get the exchange steering box before I send you my old steering box? I could give you a deposit if you wish which would be refunded when I send you my old steering box.

I drove the car at the Trek last August and knew that the steering would need attention, but I don't remember it to have been quite so much play as when I drove the car recently. I went ahead and bought the car in part based on having read your article, which gave me the assurance that the steering should be fixable.

I thank you for your attention to this matter.

Yours truly.

Allan Shantz

QUESTION: 1930 SERIES 14 STEERING BOX

Dick Pratt is rebuilding the 1930 and later Gemmer steering boxes.

Usually by the time a steering box wears enough to need re-building, not all the play in the steering is because of just a worn steering box. There are many areas in the suspension/steering system that contribute to steering wheel play. Also, I've seen a number times where at first it was thought the steering box needed re-building, only to find it just needed proper adjusting to take up for wear.

If your not 100% certain, I would recommend checking that both the front and rear axle spring mounting bolts, spring pivot bolts and clips are all properly tightened.

Make sure the front wheel bearings are adjusted.

Check that the adjusting screw for each of the ball joints are tight as they'll go, then backed off to the first hole their cotter pin will go in.

Check the king pins. If they are worn, they will contribute to steering play also. No adjustment there, they need to be re-built. If only slightly worn, greasing them often with a heavy wheel bearing grease will help reduce what they contribute to steering play.

Then carefully go through the steering box adjusting procedure in the owner's manual.

After checking all that, if the steering still has alot of play then it's time to see about re-building the steering box.

Let me know what you find,

Paul Fitz.

what I said about first checking/adjusting the suspension/steering system applies to Gemmer equipped cars also.

Dick Pratt has a very busy, large machine shop to run, plus he's probably used up what little spare time he gets working on re-producing 30 and later grill shutters, so it may take awhile for him to get back to you.

Paul Fitz.

QUESTION: UPHOLSTRY

Here is one for the Maestro or anyone else who might know . What kind of thread does one use when reupholstering a 1930 with very "expensive " wool broad cloth . Some upholsters want to sell me nylon but I don't think so . What kind is generally used to maintain some originality and who carries it .

Glenn Lincoln

ASWER: UPHOLSTRY

Glenn,

First off, who will be doing the sewing - you, or an upholstery shop? Reason I ask is the type of sewing machine being used can have a bearing on thread type/size.

Commercial threads are hard to get a home sewing machine to sew consistently with. Those type threads are designed to work at higher speeds/loads than home cotton threads, and as such, are coated to make them slippery. That makes it very difficult to adjust the thread tension in a home machine. Industrial sewing machines with their larger, more elaborate tension devices tend to break cotton thread.

If you want to use cotton thread like original your options are pretty much limited to home thread suppliers. All the industrial upholstery suppliers I know of and use only carry nylon and polyester threads because those type threads are better suited for the bulk of the auto upholstery business.

If your worried about how the thread will look.........
Good quality, industrial upholstery size B69 nylon thread is the size most commonly used for interior auto upholstery work. It is the equivalent size to the cotton thread that was used for the bulk of sewing in Franklin's. That type nylon thread is stranded, and treated, so it doesn't look like the single strand "plastic" threads sold for home sewing use. In fact once sewn in place, it's very difficult to tell good quality synthetic threads from cotton, until the cotton starts to wear and fray.

The main pluses to using synthetic threads is strength and wear resistance. Polyester having an additional advantage over nylon for exterior sewing because is resists eventual sunlight damage better than nylon.

We use nylon thread for all our fabric and leather interior work, polyester for exterior work.

Paul Fitz.

Paul ,Thanks for the reply .
The sewing machine is a FY5318 so commercial thread is a given . My main concern in using a standard upholstery thread such as nylon or polyester is that it will not detract from the quality of the restoration . If this is the kind of thread that is used to restore the old cars then I can be comfortable using it . I just do not want to find out after the job is done that I am not satisfied .
Thanks again

Glenn,
If you have any misgivings, see if whoever is supplying the thread can show you some stitching done with the B69 nylon. I think you'll be satisfied with how it looks.

Something to keep in mind. Synthetic threads look lighter in a single strand than they do on the spool. Franklin didn't always match thread to fabric colors, but if you want a match don't just look at the spool, un-roll some thread and lay it over your fabrics in natural light.

Paul Fitz.

Nov 15, 2007 - Paul
I have another comment or Question . Some of the original upholstery appears to have been attached with brads , small finish nails , such as the post between the doors . The three inch wide strip of black card board only shows a nail hole about one half inch in on each side and spaced lengthwise about four to six inches on center . These holes corresponds with the brads sticking out of the door column . Is this a standard practice ?
Glenn

Glenn,
Yes, some edges of the fabric covered panels on closed cars are installed with fine wire brads. The brad is carefully driven flush with the fabric and then the fabric is "picked" up around the nail head with a pin to hide the nail.

Paul Fitz.

(WebMaster: I'm an old man, with Tom and Paul I learn something new every day, thanks guys, a great job well done!)

Nov. 8, 2007

QUESTION: SERIES 12 REAR AXLE WHEEL BEARINGS

Paul,

Today I turned my attention back to my problem of removing the rear wheel bearing cups (outer races) from their housings on my Series 12B.

I had previously tried driving them out with a small diameter (1/4") soft steel drift, but due to the limited access to the back of the cup, the drift is at a very disadvantaged angle to accomplish this (probably greater than 60 degrees) so they wouldn't budge.

Today, before trying the drift again, I hit the cup several times with a soft lead hammer from the inboard end which would only serve to seat it tighter but my thought process was that it might jostle it a bit and overcome the initial reluctance to move.

Well it worked and, in fact, these races are not a very tight fit and once they have moved a few thousandths the cup drives out quite easily.

Colin

ANSWER: SERIES 12 REAR AXLE WHEEL BEARINGS

Colin,
Glad you got them out, but wheel bearing races that loose worry me. Easy to remove races can be a problem later.

Check to see if the new races are a "slip fit". If so, they could move in the bearing retainer as it undergoes temperature changes. If it moves, it wears. The housing being a softer material will wear more. With the weight of the car perpendicular to the axle center line any wear will not only cause the bearings to be loose, but will also cause off-center wear that gets worse with use. Repair of which could be very expensive !!!!!!

When it's time to put the new races in, if they are not even a slight press fit, wash all oil off the parts with solvent, and use a light coating of Loctite's "Quick Metal" on the race/housing contact surfaces to keep the races seated. Wipe off any excess Quick Metal and make sure the new race is fully seated. If the race is loose enough that you can rotate it by hand, install the axle with roller bearings, then bolt on the bearing retainer and snug it all up to let the race and Quick Metal set up in proper alignment. After allowing 24 hours for the Quick Metal to set up unbolt the bearing retainer, install the new seals in the retainer, and pack the roller cages with wheel bearing grease.

During final assembly, don't forget that with new bearings you may need to add shims from a parts rear axle if any original shims were removed to take up for wear over the years. Using a dial indicator on the end face of the axle shaft, you want to see .003 - .005 inch axial end play.

Paul Fitz.

Nov. 7, 2007

QUESTION: COMPRESSION AND VACUUM

Series 11-A Compression and Vacuum Gauge readings.

What sort of compression should be found in the cylinders of a well used Series 11-A engine? Would there be a difference between a cold engine and one that is measured when hot?

How many inches of intake manifold vacuum is considered normal for this engine running at idle?

Thanks,

John

ANSWER: COMPRESSION AND VACUUM

Hi John -

As far as compression - the key thing you are looking for is even readings. While it is certainly likely that a worn engine will give lower reading than a fresh engine, if they are even, you can assume your valves and rings are doing a decent job. When valves begin to leak it will be far worse in one or two cylinders - so you will see a large variance in compression readings.

I think 65-70psi is probably absolute max for a Series 11. If you get much below 50, you would want to investigate further.

I tend to use cylinder leakage tests far more than compression tests. This involves introducing compressed air into the cylinder and measure the quantity of air leaking out versus going it. There are differential pressure gauges that measure this. Or simply silver soldering an air line coupler fitting into and old spark plug body and pressurizing a cylinder while it is at TDC will tell you a great deal. The air will leak out. Usually it leaks past the rings. You can hear the hiss in the oil filler tube. With a bad exhaust valve, you can hear the hiss at the tailpipe. With a bad intake valve, you can hear it at the intake of the carburetor.

An engine with a small leak in an exhaust valve may run quite well and show only a very small variance on a compression test, yet show dramatically on a cylinder leakage test. One can catch a valve going bad before it burns completely and possibly damages the valve seat as well. Once a compression test shows a valve is bad - it's really bad.

Vacuum readings should be steady. Rapid oscillations may also be a sign of a leaky, or sticking valve.

I'm guessing that 15-17" of vacuum is probably close for a vacuum reading. Watch for retarded ignition timing if your readings are low.

I hope that helps - I'm not so greatly versed with the numbers you should be seeing, but you can tell a lot by how steady they are and how they compare from cylinder to cylinder.

Tom Rasmussen

QUESTION/ANSWER: SERIES 9 CAM

Hi Chuck -

I deleted your message by mistake, but read enough. You have way too much cam thrust play - right? Thrust is taken up by the #1 camshaft bearing on the 9, right?

Usually the thrust does not wear much - but there is always a load against it due to the helical gear cut.

You will have to add a thrust washer, unless you can 'seat' the cam gear further - I don't even want to think about how you might do this on the taper.

The shim should be affixed to the backside of the cam gear, or the edge of the bearing - it cannot float or it will wear a groove in the shaft - not good practice. My idea would be to use 660 bronze. I don't love the idea of a bronze shim running against the cam or the cam gear (although it would probably be fine), so maybe affixing the bronze shim to the back of the cam gear is the best bet. It could be retained by two or three small brass pins - we only need to keep it from spinning. You might need to machine off a bit of the cam gear boss to allow for a thick enough shim to work with.

Just an idea....

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 12 WOOD CHASSIS SILLS (THE REST OF THE STORY)

Paul,

Since writing to you (before the Trek) regarding a source for "dense white ash" and your response with 3 possible sources, I have made calls to them and numerous other hardwood suppliers around the northeast and upper mid-west. I usually struck out because of their unwillingness to deal with the small quantity I needed or their lumber was not harvested in a cold climate state or insufficient quantities on hand of the sizes needed, quality etc, etc.

Last week I decided to call your same contacts again to see if they could offer any additional leads that I hadn't tried.

Today I made a 550 mile round trip to (of all places) San Antonio, Texas, where the owner of the yard broke open a bundle of white ash with the name "Baille" stenciled on the side. Baille's rep in Buffalo assured me that what he ships to Alamo Hardwoods is harvested in NY or possibly PA. The owner and I selected twelve absolutely clear 12' boards which they milled for me to the dimensions I specified (significantly larger than the desired finished dimensions). The end grains show a good close grain and I believe I am now "good to go" with the sill project.

"Wooden" you know it, Mr. Wrench "saw" me through another problem!
Thanks again,
Colin

QUESTION: SERIES 12 WOOD CHASSIS SILLS (THE REST OF THE STORY)

Colin,
Glad to hear you finally found what you need. Thanks for letting me know.

Small world !!! The Baillie mill is in the next town to mine, about four miles west of here. They are part of a large seven mill NY/Pennsylvania chain called American/Baillie. If it says Baillie, then yes, your lumber was cut from our local woods.

Ironic that you had to travel 550 miles to San Antonio when you were only 25 miles away from Baillie while you were at the Trek.

If you have the room, I would suggest that you move the wood into your work space and "sticker-it", that is, stack all the boards in one pile on a level surface, or rack, with square sticks of scrap wood placed at about two foot intervals between each board. If you have to put them on a concrete floor, make sure it is level and that they are up off the floor as high as possible on wooden blocks placed at the same two foot intervals. To prevent bending/warping, make sure the sticks are inline vertically with the sticks between the boards above/below.

Storing them that way will give them good support and allow even exposure on all sides to stabilize to work place conditions. Let the boards sit that way for a couple of weeks and they will be as straight as possible when you start to use them.

Let me know how the project progresses because I "wood" love to hear more.

Paul Fitz.

October 29, 2007

QUESTION/ANSWER:1929 SERIES 130 4 DOOR SEDAN WINDOW FRAME

(WebMaster: This is an e-mail from Tom and John just the way it was revived, I hope1 I got it right with who said what
John is blue and Tom is green.)

John -

My guess is that something changed. Perhaps the windshield header wood placement - it's a likely candidate.

At any rate, you will have to decide if you can move something (may not be easy) or adjust something else to make the windshield fit. Seal surface? Swing arm pivot on windshield frame location? Gasket thickness?

You'll have to find a way to make it work. The best would always be to find what was changed - but this is not always possible.

When messing around with wood on sedans, I am always amazed at how careful one needs to be. Tightening a final screw in a longitudinal header in the back on one side can suddenly throw off the door fit at the front on the other side. If someone does not have all the parts in hand and fitted while doing structural woodwork, problems may appear later.

Not to say that's your problem, but it's happened to me time and time again.

Let me know what you find...

tom

In a message dated 10/28/2007 9:45:52 AM Central Standard Time
Hi Tom:
In a message dated 10/27/2007 9:30:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time

Hi Tom:
Thanks. The problem is, that the swing arms are loose when the windshield is closed - the windshield is too close to the opening against which it should seal. Or, the seal is too narrow.
John

Hmmmm -

So, if you push the windshield in from the outside, then the swing arms are loose? YES
Another way - if you lever the swing arms closed, then the windshield still sticks out at the bottom on the outside? YES

My process on something like this is:

Did it fit like this when new I PRESUME IT FITTED PROPERLY WHEN NEW, or when I took it apart? WHEN I GOT THE CAR THE WINDSHIELD WAS IN THE BACK SEAT AND ALL THE PLATED PARTS WERE IN A BOX. THE QUADRANTS MIGHT NOT EVEN COME FROM THIS CAR. FOR THAT MATTER, I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT THE WINDSHIELD COMES FROM THIS CAR, BUT IT SEEMS LIKELY.
If yes, then I look at what I have added - the seal thickness would be in question IT IS FRESH FROM THE H H FRANKLIN CLUB. ANY COMPLAINTS FROM OTHER MEMBERS?

If no, then what have I changed? I would look at the hinge and study whether or not I got the new one in exactly the same spot as the old. I WOULD SAY YES. THE SCREW HOLES IN THE HINGE WERE MEASURED FROM THE ORIGINAL HINGE. THE WOOD SCREWS ARE INTO THE SAME HOLES [I HAD TO PLUG THEM, BUT THE LOCATION IS THE SAME]. THE BACK EDGE OF THE ORIGINAL HINGE WAS LINED UP WITH THE BACK EDGE OF THE WOOD, AND THE NEW ONE IS ALSO. If the top of the windshield were too far back - toward the rear of the car, it would be tight at the top of the A-pillars, loose at the bottom. I WOULD NOT DESCRIBE IT AS "TIGHT" AT THE TOP OF THE A-PILLARS, RATHER "TOUCHING" AT THE TOP OF THE A PILLARS. Pushing the windshield in at the bottom would result in swing arms being loose because the whole windshield was back too far. YES, BUT IF I MOVE THE TOP FORWARD, THE SEAL WILL NOT TOUCH ANYWHERE; NOW IT IS TOUCHING AT THE TOP, NOT AT THE BOTTOM
Has anything else changed? Locations of swing arm mounts? NO. Windshield frame mounts? NO. Something is different - what is it? I AGREE, BUT DAMNED IF I KNOW.

tom

OF COURSE I AGREE WITH YOUR REASONING. AT THE MOMENT IT LOOKS AS THOUGH NOTHING ADDS UP, BUT SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE SOMEWHERE. I WILL KEEP THINKING ABOUT IT.

THE TOP WAS REPLACED BY SOMEONE BEFORE I GOT THE CAR. I BELIEVE IT WAS AT THIS POINT THAT THE WINDSHIELD WAS REMOVED. THE CROSS-PIECE (BOW?) AT THE FRONT OF THE TOP WAS RE-WORKED, SO ALL THAT HAS BEEN APART. ALTHOUGH EVERYTHING APPEARS TO LINE UP WITH THE A-PILLARS ON THE SIDES, SOMETHING MIGHT HAVE CHANGED.

HOWEVER, ALL THAT IS PROBABLY IRRELEVANT. AT THE LEVEL OF THE QUADRANTS, WHEN THEY ARE TIGHT, THE SEAL FAILS TO TOUCH THE PILLARS BY MAYBE 3/32". MOVING THE TOP OF THE WINDSHIELD FORWARD WILL MOVE THE GAP AT THE BOTTOM UP TO THE TOP, BUT IT WON'T CHANGE THE GAP AT THE HEIGHT OF THE QUADRANTS, SINCE THE WINDSHIELD WILL BE PIVOTING AROUND THAT POINT.
JOHN

Comment from a reader

Did John get his windshield installed and closing properly yet ? If I could interject what I would do . I would cross string the windshield posts at the stops to see that they are parallel . That is stretch a string from the top of the post at the stop on one side to the bottom of the post at the stop on the other side . Repeat this process starting from the other side . Put a shim , the thickness of the string ,under the top string at both ends . The strings should just barely touch in the middle no more and no less . If they barely touch the posts are parallel , if not that is another project . Next I would determine the distance needed between the stop and the windshield frame and position and install the hinge at the top giving that exact clearance . Close the windshield without the quadrants and see if it closes properly . If it does install the Quadrants and again see if it closes properly . Each step of this process will tell you what works properly or what is right . I hope this helps as doors and hinged panels can be very touchy at times when out of alignment .

Glenn

October 27, 2007

QUESTION/ANSWER: CRANKSHAFT AND CLUTCH SERIES 9 ENGINE REBUILDING

Tom--Do you have any suggestions on how to remove a balky Crankshaft clutch on the 9A. The set screw is out.
Do you mean the starter drive sprocket or gear that drives the camshaft? If you mean either of these, a puller is needed.

Also, are there inserts available for the mains, or do you just rebabbit the bronze shells?
One can re pour new main bearings into the original caps, but the crankcase inserts are solid die cast babbitt. For these it is best to machine new bronze shells and babbitt the shells.
Do you use the distance between center of the crank and center of the cam shaft to line bore the mains? If so, what is the figure?
Yes - I don't have a Series 9 case here, but I believe it is 3.000". I may be wrong, but the measurement is to a nice even size - 3.000 or 3.500. John Wilkinson was wonderful that way.
And do you have a recommendation for pouring and boring mains?

Thank you,
Chuck Richardson

Any shop with a good align bore setup can do it as there are no real tricks to the Franklin mains. Shells must be made and fitted with crush first. The thrust is much simpler on the Series 9 than the early cars. You could certainly check around in your part of the country. We can help advise another place doing the work, or do the job as well.

Series 9 rear main upper bearing showing new bronze insert after align boring & polishing

Note brass pin to retain insert

Align boring underway - bearings are machined one at a time with support arms on either side of the bearing being machined. Arms in this photo are in position to recheck case alignment in the machine in preparation for machining #1 main and achieving proper distance
between it and the camshaft.

tom

Tom--I meant the screw-on nut that the handcrank engages at the front of the crankshaft. Right now, mine won't budge with me tugging on a 2' long crescent set to its flat sides.

Of course, sorry I didn't cath that.

Sometimes and impact wrench is needed on these. You want to avoid heat as we don't want to lose any temper. You might have to make a socket that will fit - or get a wrench to fit it very solidly and give the wrench some good smacks with a good sized mallet - the shock will help. Is it a square? Hard to find a socket to fit a square. It's also hard to hold the crank firmly enough - the reason an impact wrench works so well.

Let me know what worked - I've got no other magic for you.....

tom

Tom--I don't have an impact wrench, so I used a 6' 2"x2" wooden beam levered between bolts on the plate at the back of the crank with my partner leaning his weight down on it and I added 3' of pipe to my 2' crescent wrench on the bolt in front. The bolt loosened just as the wood started to split. One small victory for a shade-tree mechanic.
I finally opened up all of the bearings on this engine. Whoever did the work 40 years ago didn't seat them well--most were barely making 50% contact to the babbit. You could still see much of the boring marks.
Chuck

October 25, 2007

Below is a question from a Buick owner that came to us from the Franklin web site
we do recieve many qiestions from other auto make owners. In this case the man is
from the Netherlands and Tom agreed to help him. We have GREAT club members!

Sir,

I have a Buick model 8-60 year 1931 whit a marvel carburator type TD-2 S. I need to adjust the float and needle valve and the air adjustment. Can you give me some information. I hope to hear from you.

Kind regards, .Iwan van Sprang, e-mail : sprangmeurs@12move.nl, The Netherlands

Hello Iwan -

The Buick Marvel carburetors can be difficult to make work properly. It is very important that all 6 jests are clean and the float chamber and bottom of the jet chamber are clean and free of dirt. Sealing the bottom of the carburetor to eliminate leaks is another tricky task.

I cannot find specifications for float level - but a very rough guess is to be sure the float itself is in a level position when the fuel inlet needle valve is closed. In general, the fuel level in the bowl should be just a small amount below the surface of the low speed jet nozzle opening. This is difficult to measure on the Marvel carburetor and some experimentation is usually required.

The only running adjustment is to the main air valve. Remove this large nut and make certain the spring underneath is in good condition. If it is not, you will need another one - contact Dean Tryon at DGTryon@aol.com I think he has made new ones.

Then screw the large knurled adjuster until it is flush with the end of the ratchet spring that bears against the side of it to hold tension. The carburetor heat lever should be on.
Start and run the engine to warm it up.

When fully warm, let it idle slowly and adjust the air screw for the best idle. Keep in mind, this is an air valve screw, so turning it in makes a richer mixture, turning out makes a leaner mixture.

When you think you have it, crack the throttle wide open quickly. If the engine hesitates, or pops out the carburetor, turn the screw in a few notches and repeat.
This adjustment covers the whole range from idle to high speed. It can be difficult today with different fuels and perhaps different springs, to achieve a setting that is perfect for all speeds. It is the only adjustment, however, so you will need to play with it. Also, if the rest of the engine is not in perfect shape and tune, it will be impossible to get a good carburetor adjustment.

I wish I had better float level information. If, after adjusting the air valve, the car seems too lean at idle, try raising the float level. The float level will be too high when the carburetor drips when sitting.

Another problem with these carburetors is the springs may change and be incorrect for the carb. Also fuel is different, so even a good spring may not behave perfectly for all conditions.

I would suggest you check the Buick Club Forum online at www.aaca.org - go to FORUMS and scroll down to the BCA. You can ask technical questions there. You can also get to it from www.buickclub.org

Good Luck -

Tom Rasmussen

The Buick carb. you were dealing with, the TD2S, is very well covered in "Motor's Factory Shop Manual" (two whole pages) There is an early 31 and a late 31 and they have different height dimensions for the jets, however the float dimension for the TD is 19/64" for both. That is with the unit upside down the distance from the surface of the bowl cover to the top of the cork float.

Hope that helps.
Bill

October 24, 2007

QUESTION: SERIES 153 MODERM AIR CLEANER OCTOBER 8, 2007

Hi Tom,

I have seen reference by you to these. I ordered one to fit a 2.25" flange which is what I measure on my 1930, but it is obviously too small to go on properly. I can force it on but it wants to pop off. All the tapered and straight filters have either a 2-1/4 or 2-7/16" flange and the 2-7/16 I would think is much too large. What have you used, what has been your experience?

Gordon

ANSWER: SERIES 153 MODERM AIR CLEANER OCTOBER 8, 2007

Hi Gordon -

The 2 1/4" flange works fine for me. I have used the RD-0610. Tim Coyle is using the R-1260.

Paul mentions the RU 0630 - this one is 4" in diameter and might be too big - I'm not sure. Paul also mentions the RU 3560 - I cannot find this one in my book. Both of these numbers use the 2 1/4" mount and should fit the U-3 inlet just fine.

For folks running a Carter BB-1, I have used several RB-0610.

We recently put a K&N on a 1930 Stutz. There was little room and we used an offset/angled mount. There are lots of options with K&N. One must remember to clean and re-oil them.

tom

Hi Tom -
I got a #RU-0690. Length is 3.5, diam is 5.5", straight. Fits right in. I made a paper tube that size to check the fit before I ordered.

Did you have force yours on, or did it slip on, that's my problem.

Well, it does take a bit of force because the inlet is smaller than the carburetor opening. But it's rubber, so it does not take much. Feels nice and secure.

tom

Tom,

The RU-0630 is about the biggest "straight round" filter that will fit on a Series 14, 15 U-3 carb. At 4-1/2 inch diameter X 5 inch length it clears the steering box and all linkages. My notes say the RU-0630 is the size that Tony Adam's bought for the now Mike Knip's 151 Town Sedan.

The RU-3560 is still available and listed on the K&N's website in the "Round Universal Tapered" section . At 5-1/8 to 4-5/8 diameters X 6 inches long, it's about as much breathing surface area a filter as can fit on a Series 14 and 15. Here's a link to the RU-3560 specification page, http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RU-3560

Attached is a picture of an RU-3560 on Balderson's 30 Roadster. Doesn't look like it from this angle, but the filter is not touching the steering box grease fitting.

Paul Fitz.

QUESTION: SERIES 3 "STUFF"

we have talked, along with Jeff, about how the ignition wires might have been routed from the mag to the plugs. When I saw Jeff's '11 at Boulton's with the tube thru the deck I thought that was it. Jeff didn't seem to think so. The photos are of the Swigart '11 at the auction. Is this the correct routing for the series 3?
Tim

QUESTION: SERIES 3 "STUFF"

The Series 3 wires went through the deck between #'s 5 and 6 though a phenolic grommet. I will send you a photo of this.

They then crossed over between 5&6, but I do not know through what. Mine is obviously not original. The Amick/Kemp car may be original, I have to find my photos of that one. Once they passed over, they went through a couple different grommets that were clamped to the intake tubes.

The unknown has always been how they crossed over. The Series 3 was unique in this regard.
I will look at Jeff's car again - my photos are all at the shop.

How about Weiant's car?

How about your car?

I have no digital camera at home, will get a photo to you ASAP.

tom

oops -

I meant between #'s 4 and 5

Interesting that the brochure shows a DR6 mag. Maybe that's what it should have??

I have the old phenolic block the wires went through. It's a round block with holes for the wires, screwed to the deck.

QUESTION/ANSWE: 1903 SPARK PLUGS

I was just reading the Q&A column, and I came across the 1903 spark plug dilemma. It said there was a problem with finding Champion X plugs.

Champion X is the correct model T plug. The original were the "take apart" type. The repop ones look like it but don't, and they are very expensive. The ones most people use are champion #25, but as a Model T owner, the Motocraft F-11 are FAR superior. The Motocraft ones don't quit working for no reason like the Champions, they look really nice, and they are cheap! Get them from Lang's Model T parts.

David Hagberg

QUESTION: 1928 SERIES 12A VALVES

Hi; I have been trying to find valves and valve springs for my 1928 12A for months. I have been told that valves and springs from a Chevrolet 6 will fit. But no one seems able to tell me which Chev 6 . Is there someone out there that could give me the identification of the specific Chevrolet engine or perhaps the part numbers for the valves and springs? I will greatly appreciate any help. Thank you. Ed English

ANSWER: 1928 SERIES 12A VALVES

Hi Ed -
The valves you were referred to are from a 283 Chevrolet 6-cylinder. They are readily available, but unfortunately not correct for your Series 12A. They can be used in 1916 - 1927 Series 9 to Series 11.

The only ready source I know of for new valves is Egge Machine Co in California. 800-866-3442. They have new valves in stock for that engine.

There is also no ready source for new springs for the Series 12. You could ask Egge - if they do not list them, they may be able to find them. Are your springs bad?

I might know of a source of some NOS valves for the Series 12 - I'll check into it and let you know if I find some.

If you decide to call Egge, ask for Jim - he knows the Franklin parts pretty well.

They also have valve guides.

Good Luck -

Tom Rasmussen

Tom,

You referred to "283 Chevrolet 6 - cylinder". I know you really meant either a 216 or 235 Chev 6. I don't know which myself w/o digging.

Hi Gordon -

oops - brain failure again.
The Chevrolet 283 was a V/8 built from the late 1950's to the mid-late 1960's.

The valves are still cheap and plentiful.

tom

QUESTION: 1904 TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS

Hi,

Thank you all for the help offered in connection with our recent high speed slipping problem. We eventually resolved the problem and are now back on the road. In the process we became quite adept at removal, disassembly (and reassembly) of the transmission and learned a couple lessons that may be worth passing along.

Years ago we found it necessary to add shims between the high speed dog (the question mark) and the high speed clutch ring in order to get sufficient opening of the ring for good contact. We used multiple (4 to 5) pieces of thin metal shims to fill the gaps on both sides of the dog, adding more whenever slippage occurred. This time, however, neither adjustment of the dog screw or the addition of more thin shims were effective and even resulted in the inability to shift into high with the engine running. We eventually suspected that the bronze band on the clutch ring had worn to the point that replacement might be necessary. Another disassembly and close inspection showed this not to be the case. The bronze band wear was found to be minimal and quite uniform. It was noted however that several of the multiple shims were badly deformed and worn at their contact points and were not fully effective. Replacing the multiple shims with a single, solid 3/16 shim and readjusting the screw resulted in a functioning high speed engagement!

During the assembly it was also observed that the high speed dog is not completely symmetrical and can be installed in two different orientations which result in slightly different alignments with the high speed cone. This could possibly contribute to previously encountered difficulty of shifting with the engine running.

Anyway, we are back on the road and look forward to next years tours. Thanks again.

Chet & Marlene

ANSWER: 1904 TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS

Hey M & C !

Interesting, I'll have to look to see if Stan used shims.

Hershey was really fun this year. Saw some really neat cars in the flea market. Bpought a few books, ate lots of home cooking and slept
like a log. Bobbie'dine was there in force. Contrary to many folks, I like the new car coral layout — just one long line.Our new (used) trailer worked out fine and is much better than the late motor home.

I am meeting Rod at the Barber mc museum in Birmingham for vintage mc weekend. I'll have to physically drag him away. So I'll be away
until 10/30.

Did you ever get the Morris Engine from Lee ?

Thanks again for the c/e trans info,

Tim

Hi Chet & Marlene -

I am glad you got the transmission operating again. A couple of observations:

Shims can be a problem on the high speed shoe. The difficulty arises when the shoe is being 'asked' to expand too far to take up for a worn lining. The result is frequently a broken shoe. I have shimmed them myself, usually no more than 0.030", or so. It is best to reline the shoe when it gets too far worn. It does not take a lot of lining loss to require the shoe to spread too far. New lining should last thousands of miles though.

The high speed dog, or 'Question Mark' can indeed be flipped over, but it has a raised boss on one side of the bore (that slips over the pin on the high speed shoe plate). This boss keeps the dog from scraping on the drive plate, so it really should only be installed one way.

I'm glad you are back up and running. These transmissions are so simple, yet buggers to restore everything - lots of pieces in there! Next time you have it out, you should probably investigate relining the shoe.

tom

October 8 & 10, 2007

QUESTION: OVER HEATING OF A 1928 SERIES 12 ENGINE

I think my 12B is overheating. I changed the distributor to Delco, since my pot metal North East distributor was out of round, cracking and spalling. I was not too happy to do this, since I had gone to the trouble to find points, cap, etc for the original. I relocated the coil to under the dash to keep it cool.

Anyway, the car doesn't run any better. When I was making timing adjustments, I noticed that it was incredibly hot by the distributor, the air blowing down the engine was so hot I couldn't hold my hand there to adjust the dist screw. The air hood was in place.

I seem to go through a lot of exhaust flange gaskets- could I have a blocked muffler? I had a muffler full of mouse nest on my 1917 Dodge, and it really sounded strange. This doesn't.

Is there a device to measure the engine heat, and if so, what is normal?

Thanks,
David Hagberg

ANSWER: OVER HEATING OF A 1928 SERIES 12 ENGINE

Hi David -

Have you ever tried to start a fuel pump replacement or some such similar job on a modern v/8 when it is at full operating temp? It's HOT.

The Franklin 'runs' hotter than a water cooled car. Cylinder head temps well over 300 degrees are common during running on the Series 12. So yes, it will be hot under there. That's why you moved the coil under the dash.

But they can still run too hot and they can run too hot for many reasons. A good state of tune is critical. Do you know how close you are on ignition timing? (any chance the fan has been rebuilt and assembled incorrectly so the DELTA mark will not be correctly indexed?) How about valve adjustment and valve timing? How about cooling system - does the sheet metal fit well? Are the cylinder fins clean? Is the carb adjusted properly?

Exhaust back pressure is another good thought - how does the exhaust feel with your hand over the tailpipe?
frequently a mouse nest will allow the car to idle well, yet bog down when trying to make power. If it is plugged badly enough to affect idle, you should be able to tell with your hand over the tailpipe.

Now these could all be secondary to the car not running well. How does it not run well? Missing? Popping? Steady but weak? Strong but erratic? Have you put a timing light on it? When you replaced the distributor, did you add a ground wire to it? (a good idea)
What kind of carb do you have?

Did the car run well before, then deteriorate, or is this a car that you have yet to get running right?

These are a few things to think through. Let me know what you can and we'll try to zero in on it.

Tom Rasmussen

Tom:

Thanks. The air hood is on properly. I have not timed it with a light yet, but just did it by ear. I will check the TDC on the fan by doing the old dummy long plug method in the spark plug hole, turning the engine forward and backward, marking both places, splitting the difference, etc. What is the correct advance setting at idle, with a timing light, as measured from TDC?

The cylinders are clean, as I put the engine back together 2 years ago. Art Cazault put new stainless valves in it and said the seats and guides were, in his words, "excellent". I don't know if he just lapped them in or machined them. I set the clearance the way it says on the firewall, and I check it often.

I installed new rings on old pistons, and the bores were pretty much perfect.

The engine shows little wear, and the car has 41,000 mi on it.

I will check with a vacuum gauge to make sure the valves are seated properly. I will also disconnect the exhaust and try blowing through it with a shop vac.

I will ground the dist. I think that makes the condenser work better?

The car does not have a regular skip, it just lacks power. I was pretty embarrassed at the Trek when a series 9 blew my doors off going up a slight grade. It will run along fine on flat ground at 45 MPH.

The vacuum tank works perfectly. The carb is not original, but is a Stromberg UR-23. Someone told me it was for a Studebaker. I should probably have it rebuilt and jetted for my engine.

Thanks so much, I'm getting kind of discouraged...

David Hagberg

Hi David -

Good information - this helps. Running smoothly but lacking power narrows things down a bit.

The most important thing to check is ignition timing. It's pretty hard on a Franklin to run much with the timing incorrect. And yes, it could make the engine run very HOT. Series 12's can crack cylinders, so you should check it right away.

Good idea checking for TDC by your method. On the Series 12, the timing should be set with the DELTA mark 1" ahead of TDC at idle with spark fully advanced.

Lack of power could be carburetion, but a bit less likely. If it were too lean, you would experience popping through the carburetor - it would not run smoothly. Al large vacuum leak might not cause popping. Good idea to check vacuum readings. Low vacuum can be a symptom of ignition timing, valve timing as well as vacuum leaks. If it were too rich, it could run smoothly, but would certainly smoke excessively and would run cool.

Camshaft timing could well be off. This would make the car run poorly and HOT. Do you have an owners book? The procedure is well described in the book. If not -

Hand crank engine to #1 TDC on the firing stroke (#6 exhaust just closed)
Set #1 intake valve to 0.031"
Rotate engine nearly one full turn, crank slowly as #1 intake begins to move.
Turn until clearance in #1 is JUST taken up - a piece of paper helps.
At this point the DELTA mark on the fan should be from 3/4" ahead to 1/4" past TDC.

If you have a dial indicator you can set #1 intake to zero clearance, or even a bit of pre-load. Set to ZERO and turn until it opens 0.031" and check the fan.

Of course, checking the exhaust is a good idea too!

I'm off to Hershey tonight - I hope you'll have some good test results over the weekend.

tom

October 7, 1007

QUESTION: SERIES 153 MODERM AIR CLEANER

Has anyone is the group ever found a modern air cleaner to fit the side draft? I have found one that doesn't work. I won't go into how long it took me to realize it. Hope to run into you in Hershey.
Tim

ANSWER: SERIES 153 MODERM AIR CLEANER

Hi Tim -

I have a K&N universal cone filter on my 153 - fits well. They are sourced by size.

http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm

I have put these on other cars as well - not exactly pretty, but I feel they do an excellent job. I have not found a K&N element for the inside of a 1932-34 supercharger housing - we use a paper element in these.

Once you come up with a part number, you can order through your local parts house as well. Not cheap, but it's a good product.

tom

There is a modern, replacement pleated paper air filter that will fit the 32 and later supercharger air cleaner housings.

It involves cutting the underside, and up to about 3/4 inch from the edge of the square opening of the mounting flange on the motor side of the air filter /super charger housing, to make a rectangular opening just big enough to insert a "WIX #42110" air filter element.

A piece of sheet metal is cut slightly larger than the shape of the opening to make a door. The bottom of the door gets it's corners notched and the bottom edge of the door is then crimped to hook inside the bottom edge of the opening that was just cut in the housing. The top of the trap door gets two holes drilled for sheet metal screws to hold it closed against the housing.

Remove the original wire mesh inside the housing and grind or file off the mesh's location tabs.

Since the door is on the motor side of the housing it is almost completely un-detectable when re-installed on the motor.

Slip the WIX filter element into the housing (it's a snug fit). Center it over the round opening to the carb. Hook the bottom edge of the trap door into the bottom edge of the opening. Bend the door closed against the housing. Install the sheetmetal screws to hold the top edge closed.

Re-install housing on the motor.

Test drive repeatedly !

Paul Fitz.

Here are numbers of K&N re-useable air filters to fit on the Series 14, and 15 Stromberg U-3 carburetors.
RU-3560 round, tapered shape.
RU-0630 round, straight shape.
There are K&N filters that will fit the earlier Series carbs, but I haven't tried any to know exactly which filter number will clear all linkages and the steering box. Check with your nearest K&N dealer.

Paul Fitz.

There is a modern, replacement pleated paper air filter that will fit the 32 and later supercharger air cleaner housings.

It involves cutting the underside, and up to about 3/4 inch from the edge of the square opening of the mounting flange on the motor side of the air filter /super charger housing, to make a rectangular opening just big enough to insert a "WIX #42110" air filter element.

Remove the original wire mesh inside the housing and grind or file off the mesh's location tabs.

Since the door is on the motor side of the housing it is almost completely un-detectable when re-installed on the motor.

Re-install housing on the motor.

Test drive repeatedly !

Paul Fitz.

Nice system.

We have always used a round element, cut a round door on the engine side of the housing and installed a stud though the middle of the housing to allow for a wing nut to hold the new door in place. Same result - another step to add the center stud. I'll have to dig out the part numbers for the round elements. They 'just' fit - not a lot of room, but we wanted the largest possible. I cannot recall right now if the Olympic took a smaller element because of the 'crush' in the housing to clear the steering gear, will have to check part numbers.

The V/12 has a really small filter element. We can increase the surface area slightly with a larger new element, but it is still too small. As such, they should be changed after 5,000 miles I suppose. The small housing is slightly restrictive in terms of engine airflow. Our own dynamometer tests have shown the 'supercharger'; makes up for this at mid rpm ranges. At high rpm the engine cannot breathe as well as with the lid off the air cleaner! I suppose this is normal on naturally aspirated engines but not commonly expected on a "supercharged" car! On the 6 cylinder cars, the dyno results are pretty much the same with the filter housing on or off. The 'supercharge' effect just offsets the losses through the housing and air cleaner element.

No matter Which model you have, the old mesh is next to impossible to clean well, a new filter is pretty much a must. I like the K&N filters as they are easy to clean and re-oil. I have thought of putting something on the early cars, but they really don't travel the miles that my 1931 does. Then again, they are so much more difficult to rebuild....

tom

October 4, 2007

QUESTION: 1928 SERIES 12 A AND B REAR SPRINGS

Hi Paul,

I am seeking your valued opinion once more. The car I am restoring is a 1928 12B, 119" wheelbase. It has the correct 8 leaf rear springs but unfortunately the upper main leaf on one side must have failed at some time and it was replaced by a "re-engineered" item. I think the workmanship is quite good but I want to replace it. The other spring has some repair issues too.

I have a 12A parts car and it has the correct 12A 7 leaf rear springs. The overall thickness of the 7 and 8 leaf springs seems to be the same, so they must have used a thinner leaf material on the 8 leaves. I do notice that the end forging on the 12B main leaf is beefier with more side flange than the 12A, though I cannot tell if the leaf itself is any different.

I could look around for another 12B main leaf or a complete spring (or even a pair of springs) but in this part of the world Franklin parts are hens teeth. I don’t think I should just take a main leaf of the 12A part car.

So my druthers would be just to use the 2 complete spring assemblies off my 12A parts car. Do you see any downside to this (other than the dreaded originality police who may count the number of leaves in my springs)? The 12B handbook says that they continued to use the 7 leaf springs on the 12B 7-pass sedans and the limousines which would be the heavier, steel framed, long wheelbase cars.

Colin Hiley
Mansfield, Texas

PS: I read the 2002 Q&A about welding the ends back onto main leaf spring. Something not mentioned in that article is that this is not a simple butt weld. I can see that the end of the leaf has a dovetail fashioned on it that extends well into the end forging. The kind of weld used is not evident.

QUESTION: 1928 SERIES 12 A AND B REAR SPRINGS

Hi Colin,

Saw you drive by a couple of times, sorry we didn't get a chance to chat at the Trek.

I doubt using the 12A springs will present a problem. Your not taking springs from a lighter car, to use on a heavy car. The other concern is that the road springs match side to side on the same axle as closely as possible.

Welded on main leaf spring ends.....
Yes, it's not like gas or electric welds. It's an older technology most welders today don't know about. The cast steel spring end pieces are "forge welded" onto the tapered end of the spring leaf. It's a form of welding used by blacksmiths for hundreds of years. I was taught how by a former brother-in-law metallurgist who also hand made reproduction colonial hardware for house/barn restorations.

In forge welding, the mating surfaces are cleaned and fitted closely without any gap since no filler rod is used. The joint area is fluxed, usually with a mix of borax and powdered iron. We always saved all the iron filings in a jar to make our own flux. The parts are held together, then the joint area is heated in a furnace to almost white hot. When the heated area starts to shoot sparks, it's ready. Then the joint gets hammered to force the near molten metal together. After that the main leaf is ached and tempered in an oven.

Paul Fitz.

Paul,

I guessed that it might have been done that way, because there is no evidence of a weld as there is when a filler rod is used. I could see the main leaf was 3 separate pieces after I had cleaned the spring in de-rusting chemicals which etched the metal surface. The dovetail joints at the ends of the leaf are quite clear.

Many years ago I had a blacksmith make me some fender brackets and he joined the pieces by hammering them together while they were white hot. The finished article looked like it was fashioned from one piece of metal. The welds were not apparent at all. He called this fusion welding.

Colin

Colin,
In principal it's a simple type of welding that's been in use for a few thousand years. Heating two compatible metals to a near liquid state and then forcing them together. But, like gas or electric filler welding, success or failure is in how well it's executed. It's an easy process to learn.

With forge welding, getting the joint clean,well fitted, and flux in the right place is critical.

And just as critical is the environment the metals are heated in. If air gets into the joint as it's being heated oxidation will occur and the metals won't join as well as they should resulting in a weak, or failed weld.

Using a forge for just general heating and shaping any hard coal, or even barbeque charcoal briquettes can be used. But for forge welding those type fuels don't burn as clean as good quality coke. The problem is that it's difficult to find good blacksmith coke these days. The guys I know who do blacksmithing go to great lengths to get it. And forget about dropping by and asking for a cup when there's a small job to be done, all you'll probably get is cola !!!!!!!

Paul Fitz.

About Coke, Soft Coal and Flux.

On Ebay there is a couple of regulars that sell coke, coal & flux for Blacksmithing. For Anhydrous borax weld flux the Ebay seller is the_wagonman his email is the_wagonman@yahoo.com

For coal & coke the seller is 801ron on ebay. He has a listing for soft coal and coke now: Ebay #190159446394

Bill

QUESTION: MORE ON THE 1929 SERIES130 SEDAN FENDER WELTING LISTED BELOW

Hi Paul:

Should there be fender welting between the rear fender at its front and the rear of the sill or valence(??) [between the running board and under the doors]? Should this be continuous with the welting between the fender and the body? Tom doesn't know, and doesn't have one in the shop to look at. Thanks.

John

ANSWER: MORE ON THE 1929 SERIES130 SEDAN FENDER WELTING LISTED BELOW

John,
The 29 parts book lists the following information.

On page 1805;
"Rear splash shield to rear fender cord welt.
Not serviced. Make from 9" - 29x8 cord welt "

Nine inch is about the length need to go between the rear splash apron where
it contacts the rear fenders.

On page 1806 as part of the rear fender parts list;
"29x8 Cord welt. Per foot .................. .10 "
Doesn't say length, just per foot cost.

Same page, further down as part of Running Board Shields parts listing;
"29x8 Cord Welt. Per foot ................... .10"

I would assume from the two listings above that there was originally "cord welt" between the fender and the body, and between the fender and the running board shield.

There is no listing of cord welt with the running board parts list, so I would also assume that there is no welting used between the running board moldings and the fenders and the running board shields.

All the original "cord welt" I have saved, or seen still on original Franklins, from the mid 20's to the early sidedraft cars, was made using long cobra grain imitation leather (oil cloth). Same as used on tops, trunks and luggage.

The factory must have had, and possibly even bought lots of scraps of cobra grain. Besides using it to make cord welt, they also used it for the hidden sides/rear of seat cushion boxing, seat spring wire frame hanging straps, as backing of upholstery cloth where it covers seat wood framing, covering wiring channels in the body framing, swing-out windshield hinge covers, etc.

In every example of the long cobra grain welt cord, the grain runs crosswise to the length. Few owners choose to re-do the car with it because of car polish getting in the grain and showing white when it dries. I don't blame them either. Who wants to have to go over all the fender welting with a tooth brush every time you wax the car ?

Paul Fitz.

Thanks, Paul. You are a gold mine. I never thought to look in the parts book. Sorry to trouble you. I wondered about the material - Rolls-Royce and Bentley made up their fender welt from patterned vinyl top material. I agree about the Cobra grain - what a pain. I will use a vinyl-covered fabric that has a slight pattern.

John

John,
Your welcome.

I get my fender welt from the model A Ford suppliers. It's not as glossy, plastic-y looking as some of the fender welting supplied by other sources. It has a thinner covering that slightly shows the weave of the backing fabric like old oil cloth did, yet not so textured that car wax residue can't be removed with a polishing cloth. Looks very much like the original
roof drip rail filler material of the Series 12's. In fact that welting material is what I've used, pealed open, cut to width, then glued over jig-cut rubber tubing.

Paul.

It just occurs to me - does that suggest that there was fender welt between the running board splash shield and the body? Since there isn't a bolt line there, I don't see how it would stay in. I hope not - mine is already together without it.

John

John,
No. Welt cord was not used between the running board shields and the body.

There Franklin used a piece of 3/4 x 3/4 inch soft felt that was tacked to the under side of the body sills starting just below the firewall, to just beyond the front face of the rear fenders. The felt was compressed between the body sill and the running board shield when the body was installed on the chassis. Same between the body, or trunk deck and the rear shield - from fender to fender. It's purpose was to prevent dirt and oil under the car from blowing out onto the finished paint.

The felt can be added to an assembled car by just working it in a couple of inches from the edge of the body with a stick. Once in place, insert a few drops of weather strip adhesive between the felt and the splash apron with a thin tube attached to the weather strip tube nozzle. Kinda like a large hypodermic needle.

Joint of running board molding to running board shield -

There is no cord welt listed with the Series 13 running board parts, or for that matter with the front fender and sill cover parts either. However, there is cord welt listed with the running board shields. Also two cork strips listed. Since it doesn't give lengths I can't tell where it's used on the running board shields.

We may be able to figure out Franklin's "mind set" for where cord welt and cork strip was used on the Series 13
by looking at the Series 14 parts book which gives a bit more info. In the Series 14 book it gives specific lengths and placement of cord welt. It not only was used between where the rear fender bolted to the body and the rear splash apron, but it lists the lengths used where both the front and rear fenders bolt to the running board shields.

Still with Series 14, unlike with Series 15, no welt is listed between the front fenders and the sill covers.

Cork strips -
Like Series 13, the Series 14 parts book also lists cork strips with the running board shields. But, it gives the actual lengths of the cork strips. The lengths given match the lengths of the inner side of the running boards used.

In the Series 13 book the cork strips are the same drawing number and price as in the Series 14 book, so I think it's safe to assume the cork strips were used in the same place on both Series 13 and 14.

Ok, that's topic been done to death !!!!!!

Paul Fitz.

October 2, 2007

QUESTION: ELECTRIC SOLENOID FUEL SHUTOFF 1928

In the FSS, Dec. 2004 #106 issue, on page 5, you mention a electric solenoid that takes the place of the shut off valve. Where can I find one for my 28 12A? Thank you. I just bought the car 10 days ago and need lots of things to be fixed.
Phil Rich

ANSWER: ELECTRIC SOLENOID FUEL SHUTOFF 1928

wrote back in 2004:

Of course, the fuel shutoff valve is the last true defense.

On Henry Gray's Nine, we installed an electric solenoid just below the vacuum tank. With ignition on, the solenoid opened and allowed fuel flow. Switch off, no fuel flow. It worked like a charm, no more fuel drips and no more fussing with a shut off valve under the hood.

tom

The last one I bought was from Snyder's :
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/ModelAParts/GasTank/2142?partnumid=

They sell them in 6 and 12 volt for use on a Series 9. They are not real robust, yet seem to work very well. I have no long-term experience with them, just what I have installed recently.

This is such a slick idea as it can be done with zero modification to original parts and saves the hassle of having to lift the hood each time you start and stop driving the car to operate the shutoff valve.

tom

Sept. 27, 2007

QUESTION: 1929 SERIES130 SEDAN FENDER WELTING

Hi Tom:
The fender welting:

1) What diameter bead? 3/16"? 1/4"?

2) What material? Vinyl coated fabric, so that the fabric pattern is visible on the welt? Or extruded vinyl? Or hand-made with vinyl top material?

3) On the rear fenders, does the welting continue down on the front to the bottom of the sills (valences?). In back, down to the bottom of the plates that cover the ends of the frame rails?
John

ANSWER: 1929 SERIES130 SEDAN FENDER WELTING

1/4"
Originally the fabric may have shown just slightly - hard to find, just use the over the counter stuff.
On the rear fenders - in back, yes the welt goes all the way and is folded over and tucked at the end of the valence. At the front of the rear fenders, I do not have a car handy to look at, cannot comment.

tom

Sept. 26, 2007

QUESTION: SPARK PLUGS FOR A 1903

Hi Tom , Sorry to bother you, but nobody out here can give me the information I need. Can you tell me the number of the plug that will work in the 03. The last time I got Champion X nobody can come up with this or a cross reference to use. I have transferred my 03 to my son who has the 23 Demi sedan ands he wants to get it running. I would be very thankful to you if you can help. Thanks Dave Powers bumpadave@aol.com

QUESTION: SPARK PLUGS FOR A 1903

Hi Dave -

A Motorcraft F11 or Champion 525 is a suitable Spark plug. The Champions are probably a bit easier to find, most good Auto parts stored can order them. Napa or Car Quest or similar is your best bet. Exp