The H. H. Franklin Club

Because there have been so many topics already covered,
you should check the index first before contacting the
WebMaster, Tom, or Paul.

Check out the 2008 index

The H. H. Franklin Club publishes the information listed in FAQ's solely as a convenience to its members. No endorsement is made by the Club or Region, no claim or warranty is made as to the accuracy of any of this information. No responsibility is assumed for any transactions resulting form this information. Most technical questions are answered by members that work on Franklins every day.

Many technical questions have come to the WebMaster desk as will as questions directed to other members. In most cases we find the questions an answers to be of valuable help in finding parts replacement, oils, or just plain technical help.

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August 27, 2008

August 27, 2008

QUESTION: 1929 SERIES 130 FUSE 30A

Hi Tom:

The heavy fuse in the block on the driver's side in my car was 30A. The max I can get from Restoration Supply is 20A. Is that going to be enough for the headlights?

John

QUESTION: 1929 SERIES 130 FUSE 30A

I think you will want to find a 30. Check Grainger, McMaster Carr - even a very good hardware store. I have not bought them for a while, but used to have no trouble. tom

Are we talking about the same type of fuse? I have just been through the Grainger and McMaster catalogs - nothing. These fuses are just under 1/2" dia, 1.5" long. They are like a small 250V line fuse. Fuses appear to have been standardised at 1/4" x 1 1/4". John

Well, then maybe they are hard to come by.... Someone will know where to get them. I will look, but don't know that I have any more. tom

I found them; thanks for your help. MSC had them. 13/32" dia, 1.5" long; 30A, 250V; they should fit. MSC#54012869. John

QUESTION: SERIES 12 ENGINE BEARINGS

Hello. My name is Mark, from Oklahoma. Have a 1928 Franklin model 12B that I am trying to fix up either for myself or for a friend of mine, depending upon whether or not I can afford it, and have just become a member of the club. I have pulled the pan and #3 rod is bad, so have miked the crankshaft on the #3 at 2.120. I have ordered the Wisconsin bearing # CB 579P, and am waiting to get it in to see if it is feasible to switch to insert bearings, like your tech. assistance said. My question is, are the main bearings the same size as the rod bearings, and should I get inserts for them also? I am planning on pulling the engine, and having the crank ground, so if I can, I would like to do the whole bottom end. Also, is it easier to dismantle the whole front of the car to get the block out, or come up? Thank for the input. Mark

ANSWER: SERIES 12 ENGINE BEARINGS

Hi Mark -

The main bearing inserts are not the same as the rod bearings. If the mains need to be renewed, new babbitt must be poured. This is no problem for the main bearing caps, but is a bit more challenging as the upper shells are solid die-cast babbitt. These either need to be poured right into the aluminum crankcase (no fun) or new bronze inserts may be machined and fitted to the crankcase, then babbitted and finally align bored. Also not a lot of fun, but a better job than trying to pour into the crankcase.

Oftentimes the mains are serviceable as the 1928 incorporated a case-hardened crankshaft from the factory.
The only way to know is to have a look at the crankshaft journals and the condition of the babbitt.

On the rods - it is not advisable to install an insert bearing without grinding the crankshaft journal. Modern inserts require a perfect crankshaft journal surface.

backing up a bit - Why did you pull the pan in the first place? Is this a running car? Or has it been years?
Typically, if you find a bad rod bearing in a 1928, you will either find 5 more that are bad, not great, or looking nice, but soon to fail. In other words, to make a good runner, replace all rod bearings. It's really the only choice. If you fix one or two and run the car much, you run the risk of having a rod bearing fail catastrophically - this causes other real bad problems.

I think you are going about it correctly - checking clearances and condition of components. Why don't you pull a few other rod caps and a main cap, or two? Let me know what you find.

you can always call if it's easier -

Good luck!

tom
763-786-1518

QUESTION: SERIES 12B FRAME SAG FOLLOW-UP

Colin,

A follow up on the wood chassis sill project. I had hoped to get pictures for you by now, but Emmett Hood's 12B Victoria wasn't at last years Trek. It was this year.

He and I were discussing how long ago the work was done. The sills were made about 24 years ago, and the car was finished a few years later. That's almost 20 years those sills have been in the car and under load. I thought you'd be interested to see pictures of how much the "crowned" sills have sagged in that time.

Notice how parallel the sides of the hood/cowl band gap are.

Paul Fitz.

August 23/27, 2008

QUESTION: VAPOR LOCK

I liked what Paul was saying about the addition of kerosene to the gas for a couple reasons. I have had a bad experience with gasoline that has ethynol added to it for the same reason, Vapor Lock. The alcohol that’s in the mixtures of gas is a lot more volatile. They tend to cause pre-ignition and vapor lock also. There is a common misconception about octane in gasoline. Picture the higher octane ratings as adding kerosene to your gas. Everyone seems to think the opposite. They think the higher the octane the hotter or more explosive the gas is. Higher octane slows the reaction down so the engine doesn’t ignite it before the optimum timing. All that being said we go back to what Paul said. The kerosene would make the gasoline less volatile and not vaporize before its time. I would worry that you may be a while finding the exact mixture each time. I have had good luck with a product they sell at NAPA called +104 an octane booster. I would also say use the higher octane gas at the pumps. This is just my personal experience. Mike

QUESTION: VAPOR LOCK

Mike,

The main problem with trying to find a fuel that is less prone to vapor lock is that there are hundreds of chemicals that refiners use to blend gasoline to meet Federal and State requirements. Unfortunately for we in the old car hobby there is alot of misinformation going around about what gasoline is made up of, and how that will affect antique autos.

Contrary to what many think, ethanol is considered to have a low volatility when compared to gasoline.
See here, http://www.nyserda.org/programs/pdfs/VOL3SC22.PDF - page 2, "FUEL PROPERTIES".

While we know ethanol is being added, assuming it is to blame for vapor lock may not be correct. There are MANY other additives we're not aware of. Because of the wide variation of different gasoline additives that refiners can use, reducing/eliminating/preventing vapor lock may not be as easy as one would hope. As a result ethanol may not be the problem, but some of the other additives may very well be. And that can vary depending on which brand of gas, sold in which State. Compared to gasoline, ethanol is considered "high octane", and ironically, may be one of the many things added to some high test gasoline's to make them high octane.

High octane vs regular gas.
Octane rating really has nothing to do with volatility, but what proportion of different hydrocarbons and additives it's blended from to reduce pre-ignition (knock) for different compression ratios in motors.

Here's a good website about some of the differences in gasoline grades;
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/preamble.html

Volatility....
If I remember correctly, way back when NY State (and possibly other states) first started putting alcohol in fuel to meet EPA clean-air standards the gasoline pumps then didn't have to list it unless it was at least 10%. When they did get to 10% the gas stations had stickers that listed 10% alcohol on the front face of the pumps which included high test. It seems that's still the case because just last week I saw the "Contains 10% Ethanol" sticker on a gas pump in a station just off the NY State Thruway. It's a new pump of the type that dispenses all three octane grades so I assume there's 10% ethanol in all three grades.

"Avgas" (aviation gasoline) does not have the additives that automotive gasoline does such as alcohol, but it is exempt for now from the EPA unleaded rules so it still has lead in it, therefore it is not as likely to vapor lock, but it may shorten spark plug and exhaust system life as the old leaded gasoline's did. And finding and paying for avgas is yet another story.

I've spoken with several people before and during this years Trek about their experience with vapor lock and using kerosene. All seem to think adding kerosene solved their problem. For now, 10% or less, of kerosene added to the gas tank seems to be working as Chapp Condit said it would.

Paul Fitz.

20 years ago, the vapor pressure of most pump gas was so high that vacuum tank cars - Series 9-12 and the Series 13's had terrible trouble with vapor lock. My 1913, with carb bolted to the crankcase and bathing in heat, would not run 5 miles - period. This was when Chape was asked so many times for solutions.

Kerosene was a good one, but turned out to not be a solution, rather an improvement. 10% helps for all the reasons outlined. But it frequently was not enough back then. I tired 20%, which was much better, but created loading up problems as there was much in the kerosene that simply did not burn in our low-compression engines. Ultimately, these non-burning heavy components either end up in the muffler or oil pan. At 10%, it was not a big problem - we all change oil often, but my muffler did ooze just a bit.

Avgas was the cure for me back then. But Avgas contains 4-5 grams of lead per gallon - at least it did then. Even in the heyday, Premium leaded only had 3-4 grams per gallon. The lead was an issue and cost was high, but boy, it made my car run smoooooth. Tours were no fun. I once ran around trying to find avgas to no avail, filled with pump gas and then could not complete the tour. I decided to steer away from avgas and look for simpler steps.

Chape offered another bit of advice. He said "Leave the gas cap off after fueling and let the 'light' additives evaporate off into the hot sun" Someone said "but Chape, isn't that a bit dangerous - if we all go fill up and park with our gas cap off, letting fuel evaporate?" Chape said "It's a dangerous world out there. Would you rather live in Russia where you are not allowed to do anything?" I got a real kick out of that one. And his trick works, er, helps. Like kerosene helps.

We had a reprieve as vapor pressures plummeted due to pressure from the environmental initiatives. I don't know where the lobby groups have gone, but vapor pressure is up again and we are seeing vapor lock issues more and more and some folks are looking for ways to combat a problem they have never seen.
The other tricks help too - insulating from heat, large enough fuel line, electric pump - if needed, with a by-pass and a check valve so line flow is not restricted through, or around the pump. Keep the engine tuned well - less heat comes from an engine that is running efficiently.

In extreme cases, we have installed fuel loop systems where we pump fuel from the tank, to the carb and back to the tank. This circulates fuel continuously and does not allow for much vapor lock causing heat build-up. It works, but is not needed on our Franklins - other than perhaps a V/12.

tom

QUESTION: PUROLATOR DECALS AND OTHERS

Hi Tom:

Who sells the Purolator decals?

John

ANSWER: PUROLATOR DECALS AND OTHERS

Hi John -

Classic Car Club of California

Larry Symons
Projects Chairman- CCCSC
14 Corral Road
Bell Canyon, CA 91307
818-704-9394
larrysymons@hotmail.com

# 701 Purolator Decal $3.95 plus 15% postage

This is a nice decal. They also have new tags for the distributor, starter and generator. They do a nice job.

tom

QUESTION: OILS VALVE/ENGINE

What grade of oil should be used for the sponge pads on the engine and the engine? I have a 1926 Dr's Coup Franklin.

Also I need the thimble shaped screw-on for the top of the gas float which is part of the carburetor.

Also, the car runs rough and skips going up steep hills. Any suggestions on how to cure this problem?

Dick

QUESTION: OILS VALVE/ENGINE

Dick,

What oil for the motor? This is one of those topics where if you ask ten
people .......... you'll probably get more than a dozen opinions !!!! Much of the oil debate (and confusion) with Franklins centers around the belief (probably based on original factory advertising) that Franklin motors run hot so they need heavy weight, and or special blends of oils. When compared to other motors in their day, yes they were considered hot running, but recent tests of running oil temps show that Franklins are well below what average modern car/truck oil temperatures are. In fact some Franklins I tested had oil temps so much lower, that according to one oil company engineer I contacted, they boarder on not being hot enough to make certain oil additives work as designed.

From my experience most of the problems stem from the oils not being changed often enough. Some think that Franklin motors can go as long as modern motors because they are using modern oils. Franklin cylinders/rings are not like a modern motor, they dirty up the oil very quickly from blow-by. It doesn't matter what oil you use because dirt is dirt ! Change the motor oil every 500 to 800 miles. If you are looking for a driver and not a show car, and you can adapt a filter system to the motor without restricting oil flow, than all the better for the motor !!!!

Most any modern good quality motor oil in the 20 - 30 straight-weight, or 5W-30, 10W-30 multi-weight range will work on the valve pads and in the engine base (crank case). For motors in good condition I'd use the light weights. For a high mileage worn motor you may want to try a 15W -40 weight oil.

Types.....
There are those who use synthetic oils, those who use a blend, and those who use conventional oils. Over the years I've heard both praise and problems from all three groups, so go with whatever type oil your confident in.

Viscosity.......
The best advice I've heard is - "Use the lightest weight oil that will stay in the motor". That was said at a Trek tech session by a former Franklin employee - Chape Condit, who worked in the test shed and then later as a chemical engineer for Sun Oil Company. Chape said he only used 20 weight oil in his Series 10 for the many years he drove it. I've also heard the same advice from some of the more experienced mechanics I've had a chance to work with over the years. To add to that, Tony Adams found some Franklin test info in the Club Library that showed that Franklin motors ran hotter with each increase in oil viscosity.

The pads should be oiled enough so that when pinched, they show wet.

The brass "Acorn nut " type dust cover for the float needle screw. I had some but they're all gone. One can be made easy enough by a machine shop if you can borrow one to copy from another member. Or take the part from any of the Stromberg O Series carbs bought at swap meets, or on eBay.

Runs rough, skips under load? If problem starts as soon as the motor is under load (at the beginning of the hill), check for ...

Dirt in fuel system - clean carb fuel bowl. Carb float level too low - adjust to point that fuel just starts to spill out of the site plug hole.
Ignition coil breaking down - try a new coil.
Point gap and point contacts condition - clean points and check gap.
Spark plug wire insulation failing.
Spark plug gap too wide - re-set gaps.

If the problem starts after the motor has been under load for some time (middle, or top of a hill) it may be vapor lock, or the fuel system isn't supplying enough fuel.

Let me know what you find.

Paul Fitz.
AUGUST 27, 2008

What kind of oil to use on the valve pads in a Series 11.

In my experience, one must not use regular mineral based motor oil on the valve pads. The exhaust guides in the Series 11 - 13 engines operate at temperatures that can cook the oil, leaving carbon deposits on the valve stems. This will, and I mean will, in time lead to sticky valves. The factory used OPCO OIL, which was their own blend of motor oil and a very light lubricant like kerosene. Some run 50-50 oil and kerosene and report no problems. Some run marvel Mystery Oil and report no problems. Some run two-stroke motor oil and report no problems. I like the two-stroke oil idea and have used it - it is designed to burn without deposits. I have used Marvel mystery oil - in 5,000 miles on my 1928, the valve stem wear was extreme. They never stuck, but I was not happy with the wear. Same for 50-50 oil & kerosene.

If you run synthetic on the pads, it does not burn, will not stick and lubricates better than anything I've heard of. If you ask folk who are putting thousands of miles on their downdraft cars, I think you will find most are running synthetic. later engines cool the valve guides quite well and regular motor oil can be used (although I still prefer synthetic here - cuts down on carbon build-up on the exhaust valve spring seats.)

It is completely o.k. to run different oil on the pads than in the crankcase.

tom

August 20, 2008

QUESTION: SHUTTER PIVOT PIN REPLACEMENT

Paul,

How does one remove the shutter pivot pins for replacement? Thanks,

Ed

ANSWER: SHUTTER PIVOT PIN REPLACEMENT

Ed,

Getting a set of Dick Pratt's stainless steel shutters?

The base of the pins are a press fit into the frame and then the remainder of the base that protrudes through the frame is "cross peaned". You can use a grinder to take off the cross pean then drive them out with a small drift pin.

Paul Fitz.

QUESTION: SERIES 9 SPARE KEY

Tom,

I don't know if this is universal, but while removing the Pullman seats on my Cloverleaf I found the following under the seat bottom panel:

A spare key for ignition and lights! Apparently put their during manufacture. It is accessible from the seat bottom:

Now I have keys for the car. Regards, Chuck

ANSWER: SERIES 9 SPARE KEY

Hi Chuck -

That's really neat! I've never seen it before, but it's surely been there a long, long time.

I have an ignition switch key inside my Series 3 that is screwed to the sidewall of the rumble seat area. I could have sworn that I once read that cars shipped from the factory by rail were crated and partially disassembled (wheels, windshield, top packed beside the car) and that the key for the car was screwed to the inside of the body. I've never found that reference again, don't know if I dreamed the whole thing, but it sounds good.

Maybe a similar thing was done on Series 9's, although I did not find them in two Series 9's we restored - both with pedestal seats.

What an exciting find

tom

August 7-9, 2008

QUESTION: 1929 SERIES 130 EXHAUST SYSTEM

Hi Tom:

I am putting in the exhaust system. As usual, it is a pleasure. At the peak of the rise over the rear axle, the holes provided to clamp the pipe are 2" OC, and the pipe is 2" OD. I am about to make a special clamp, since normal ones won't fit. Any other suggestions?

By the way, I never managed to move the exhaust flanges in situ, but I did shim them satisfactorily. The intake flanges I managed to line up.

John

ANSWER: 1929 SERIES 130 EXHAUST SYSTEM

Hi John -

I was away on vacation, then the Trek, then a funeral - only back in the office now.

You are surely well past this, but I will say that the clamp was originally a strap clamp, similar to an axle strap, or axle clip as used on buggies and early cars to hold the springs to the spring perch on the axle. . It was a flat strap with a threaded stud on each end, was bent to shape as needed. I think they were thin forgings. This is why a standard exhaust clamp does not fit.

The strap clamps can sometimes be found through carriage supply houses - such as Woodlyn coach or Witmer Carriage. I have bought from both of these places.

I was hoping to see you at the Trek - next year?

tom

Woodlyn Coach Co. 4410 T.R. 628 Millersburg, Ohio 44564 216-674-9124 Woodlyn supplies carriage parts much like Witmers in PA.

Witmer Coach Shop
1070 West Main St.
New Holland, PA 17557
(717)656.3411

Hi Tom

Next year. I still have the front fenders and hood to paint, and the whole interior to do.

I made a strap clamp just as you describe. It is not a forging, so it is probably not as strong as it might be. We will see how long it lasts (the strap is silver brazed into slits in the threaded studs, so the brazing is in shear).

I had to install the exhaust five times before I got it right. It still seems to me to be rather close to the fuel tank. I wrapped that part (as well as the part under the master cylinder) with insulating wrap.

John

Five times, eh? Want a job?
Exhaust is never fun. And you're doing just great.
It's hard to make a small tweak, or bend to a long twisted pipe, spend a half hour getting it into place and then learn the bend you gave it was not the right way - that it needs twist and bend.

Yes, the pipe does come very close to the gas tank. As long as it does not touch the tank, all is o.k.
Insulation wrap was original under the master cylinder, but I don't think Franklin bothered with the tail pipe at the gas tan. Good idea though.

tom

August 4, 2008

QUESTION/ANSWER: REBUILDING HYD BRAKES

Club member Allan Franklin e-mail this information with hopes it may help others in the rebuilding of your brake system.
Brake Parts used for my 1931 Franklin Automobile, Series 152
Should be the same for the brakes on the following:
1930 Series 145
1930 Series 147
1932 Series 151
1931 Series 152
1931 Series 153
1932 Series 163
1932 Series 164
1933 Series 193
1934 Series 194

3 each Brake Hoses 28-30 # T52A (male threads....3 @ $19.50 ea. ..........$ 58.50
Source: Roberts Motor Parts (800) 231-31870 Gary (Shipping $10.00)

1 each Master Cylinder Rebuilt Kit #UP-1 ...............................................$14.80
Source: NAPA

2 each 1 3/8" Front Wheel Cylinders # WC-1430 ....2 @ $78.69 ea..............$157.37
2 each 1 1/4" Rear Wheel Cylinders # WC-695 ....... 2 @ $52.79 ea.............$105.58
(Stock front wheel cylinders use 1 1/4" but 1 3/8" larger ones
can be used by filling out the two mounting holes.)
4 each Bleeder Screws # F-11410 ........................4 @ $1.33.......................$6.75
3 each Master Cylinders Washers # F-17...............(pack of 10) ....................$3.80
4 each Banjo Bolt Copper Washers # F-602 ..........(pack of 10).................... $4.60
4 each Copper Washers # F-603............................(pack of 10) ....................$4.60
Source: Rock Auto (866) 762-5288 Jeff

Notes: Use Loctight on Master Cylinder washers

Stoplight Switch: Echlin # SL-113 See Harley Davidson dealer?

Bleed Brakes, Start furthest from the master cylinder.
(In this order: left rear, right rear, right front, left front)

After cleaning out the brake lines, blowing air and brake cleaner thru the lines,
I elected to use Dot 5 Brake Fluid.

July 14, 2008

QUESTION: DYNETO OILING

Tom,
The front oil cup on my dyneto (starter/generator) has always been difficult to see if any oil or how much oil is going into the oil cup from an oil can. You can't see the drops going in. Got to guess how far to push the oil can lever. I decided after 65 years to fix it. (bad choice) I fabricated a "toilet seat" oil cup to replace the front oil cup. When I removed the original oil cup I was surprised to see it had a curved extension tube on it to direct the oil somewhere other than directly below the oil cup. The oil cup threads seem to draw up tight with the extension tube pointing to the rear. Towards the center of the dyneto. By feel of rapidly increasing torque on the oil cup threads I believe this is where it originally pointed. Do I have it correct?
Another possibility I thought -- The oil cup is not directly over the top of the shaft of the dyneto. If the oil cup was screwed back 1/4 turn it would make the end of the tube over, or closer to over the centerline of the shaft.
I have never had the dyneto apart (and never want to) so I can't picture the arrangement inside.
wendell

ANSWER: DYNETO OILING

Hi Wendell -

Hmmm - tough question. You surely want to keep oil off the armature and fields, a little will not hurt, but it also will not do its job - lubricate the front bearing. I cannot imagine why it would not be centered over the shaft and wonder if it is possible that it was bent, and is supposed to be straight. How could the factory ever install them facing the correct way if they were originally angled? Wilkinson would have likely come up with a better design than to rely on the threads engaging the proper torque at just the right spot.

I think it went straight to make sure the oil got to the shaft and did not creep down the inner wall of the housing. The bearing does get oil from the timing chain side, so perhaps this is not all that critical.

What do you think??

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 9 GASKETS / RING GAP

A couple of questions as I progress on rebuilding my engine.

On the valve mechanism, I found a fiber gasket between the lifter guide and the crankcase: can I use a red fiber gasket to replace this? And between the lifter guide and lifter tube were copper gaskets: Are these correct? Finally, the cylinder gaskets: on my car they were fiber, is this correct? Also the car had a gasket between the cylinder and the rocker arm case, but I understand this is not correct.

And what do you use to pack the exhaust nut now that asbestos is out of the question?

Thanks in advance again for your help.

Chuck

Tom,

Another question: I'm checking the gaps on the rings for my Series 9. I would normally set them at somewhere between .010 and .013 (using the .003-.004" per inch diameter of the piston). Is there any reason to increase in Franklins? or is that your normal? Thanks again,

ANSWER: SERIES 9 GASKETS / RING GAP

Hi Chuck -

I am not sure what you mean by a red fiber gasket, but anything thin and fairly firm is fine here - no cork. You have a machined surface against a machined surface, so a thin gasket is all that is needed - with sealer.

Under the tube - they may have used Copper rings, but I have not seen original ones. Paper, or fiber, is what is commonly used here. Copper asbestos crush gaskets were used on top of the lower pushrod tub to valve cage nut and the underside of the valve cage on later cars, not sure about the Series 9. You can use a little sealer here as well to stop leaks from running down the tube. Avoid fiber here - it tends to just tear upon installation. The real trick to sealing lifters & tubes is to be sure the pushrod tube lengths are adjusted correctly, then use good gaskets and sealer on clean & true surfaces.

Originally many cylinder bases had thin copper gaskets. Some still prefer to use these to maximize heat transfer to the crankcase. I always had trouble sealing these well and have used paper for most projects.

Manifold gaskets are available from Jeff Hasslen in copper clad asbestos as original. You can reach him evenings at 763-441-7815. Jeff also has the lifter gaskets and cylinder base gaskets ready to ship - might save you time.

I'm glad you are making good progress.

tom

Chuck -

It's a good idea to increase the gap a bit on the top ring on a Franklin. 0.012 - 0.014 for the top ring, then you can go the 0.010 - 0.013 for lower rings.

tom

July 4, 2008

QUESTION: BEARING N1728 FROM NAPA

Paul,

The manager of my local NAPA store got pro-active today and called SKF, having been unable to find an SKF box, in the NAPA system, marked N1728 and with the right -4 bearing inside it. He apparently caused quite a ruckus because a QA manager got involved making statements like "Well if this problem has been around for a couple of years, how come I didn't know about it?"

I wish I had been there to tell him that his tech support was advised of this 2 or 3 years ago.

I understand that a search of the N1728 stock at SKF all had the -4B bearings too. Last I heard this afternoon, SKF was postulating that NSK was no longer making the -4, but the NAPA store manager expected another call to confirm that.

Hopefully that is not true.

I'll let you know how this comes out.
Colin

PS: I wonder if Toyota superceded the -4 with the -4B by using a contoured carbon thrust block or something similar with it?

ANSWER: BEARING N1728 FROM NAPA

Colin,
Went through similar.

Since this happened before, and I was told at that time that the part was incorrect, I don't think Toyota made a change. And, with that much difference in the shape of the bearing thrust face, plus the fact that SKF uses a different number/letter code, I doubt that NAPA would not change their identification also.

When I started ordering them, no one at NAPA seemed to know why a "re-boxed" part would have the wrong part in the right box . I was told that someone up the NAPA chain finally had called around and found us the right ones by having someone go out on a warehouse floor and start opening boxes. We were told that notification of the problem was being passed on to the right channels to see that it didn't happen again. Oh well.

Paul Fitz

July 3, 2008

QUESTION:FINISH ON SHUTTERS

Paul,

What's the correct finish for the hood shutters on a 147 roadster? I've seen chrome shutters on 1930 cars and I've seen painted shutters. Some of the painted shutters match the car's upper body color while others match the fender color and still others are black.

Also, do you have any idea where I can locate rubber weather stripping for the golf club door?

Thanks, as always.

Ed

ANSWER:FINISH ON SHUTTERS

Ed,

Going by many known-to-be-original examples, the factory painted Series 14 shutters and the standard color was black.

Adding to that evidence, there is a service bulletin (#566 March 22, 1930) about the factory recommending painting the hood front center bar, and provides details on cost and steps to do it.

"As outlined in General Letter No. 518, the paint specifications have been changed for the Series 14 hood front to call for a lacquer finish on the center bar to harmonize with the shutters. Since the letter was issued it has been decided to omit the stripe on the center bar after painting. The effect is more uniform as the stripes on the shutters are hidden when the shutters open. The appearance of the hood front is greatly enhanced and it is therefore highly desirable that this work be done on cars now in owners' and dealers' hands. ".

While it makes no mention of a specific color, it does mention matching the shutters, so here's more evidence the shutters were painted. Since there is no mention of getting color matched locally, as the factory often did when writing about any problems dealing with the rest of the car's color, the assumption is the color is black.

I've come across a few all original Series 14 hood fronts where you can clearly see how they masked the center bar, top and bottom, in a "bullet" shape and painted the bar black right over the chrome.

However, for an added fee, Franklin did allow customers to pick non factory colors, so it's possible that there may have been some Series 14 cars with shutters done in something other than black.

The only chromed shutters I've seen on a Series 14 I know were done by the owner who restored it - Marv Gage's 145 Club Sedan, the former Ken Johnson car. When I asked Kenny why he did that he said he preferred the look of chrome.

For what it's worth ....... there are a couple of Series 15's with painted hood fronts and shutters , but ...... I've been unable to verify if it was done by the factory, the dealer, or an owner. One example is Ron Andrews' 151 Pursuit with the hood front painted body color and the shutters painted the wheel color. I haven't seen Ron at Treks in a few years to ask him what he knows about it.

There is no reproduction golf bag door seal specifically listed for a Franklin. The only material I've ever seen, that I assume was original, was a simple 1/4 inch wide, cloth faced sponge rubber stripe tacked into the door opening so that the lip of the door pressed into it. Any of the repro rubber manufacturers should have some in a size that would work. Don't forget to wax the face of it to prevent it from sticking to the paint over time.

Paul Fitz.

June 30, 2008

QUESTION/ANSWER: VAPOR LOCK CHECK LIST

Before I list Pauls information, at this years Westrek it was very hot almost every day at or close to 100, in Nampa (Boise) Idaho this is far from the normal. We have a few Franklins stop running and had to be towed or trailered back to the hotel, we all much keep in mind the check list Paul has supplied - WebMaster:

Had a call from a member with a vapor lock problem in a Series 11 B. Since this hasn't come up much in the past few years, and I suspect that with the rising cost of gas, who knows what may be happening to our gasoline, I guess it's time to re-visit the problem with a check list added.

First off, what is vapor lock?
It's a condition when gasoline in a fuel system gets too hot to stay in a liquid state. Carburetors are designed to meter liquid gasoline not vapor. The vapor displaces some, or all of the liquid gasoline and the result is the motor runs too lean with a loss of power. That's why the motor seems to starve for fuel.

Usually vapor lock just happens in the narrow fuel passages of the carburetor, which tends to be the hottest part of the fuel system. At it's worst the vapor bubbles can accumulate in narrow passages such as fuel line fittings cutting off the flow of liquid gasoline even against the pressure of a fuel pump. Given enough time and heat the entire fuel system from the carburetor on back to the gas tank can become filled with just vapor as any liquid gas boils and turns into more vapor. When that happens, even electric pumps mounted back by the gas tank can't overcome that much vapor pressure.

How to recognize it?
Vapor lock only happens when the motor and weather combine to make parts of the fuel system hot enough to boil the gasoline to vapor. If the motor runs fine when cool, but when fully warmed up, it starts to run rough like it's starving for fuel, and it gets worse such as back firing when accelerating, or going up hill, most likely it's vapor lock. Another indication of vapor lock is if any part of the fuel system gets so hot that it is uncomfortable to touch.

Vapor lock check list.

1. Gasoline can be very "localized" because many states require oil companies to blend gasoline with additives to meet local air quality standards. Plus, there can be differences between what additives the oil companies add to the gasoline to meet those local standards. Sometimes just switching brands of gas can eliminate minor cases of vapor lock.

2. What "season" of gas was in the car when it was vapor locking? If the car was last filled up in cold weather that "Winter" gas is designed to have a lower boiling point so it will start easier in cold weather. Winter gas will often vapor lock in hot weather. Siphon the gas into your modern car and try "Summer" gas in your Franklin to see if it still vapor locks.

3. Inspect to see if the cylinder cooling fins are plugged with a buildup of oil, dirt, leaves, chicken feathers, whatever. On sidedraft motors, with the aid of a flash light, look through the fins from the passenger side. Not only will dirt and oil build up on the fins, I've found mouse nests at the rear of the driver's side air duct on a couple of sidedraft motors.

4. Remove any splash pans on the side of the motor base. They are a hold-over from the days when few roads were paved and deep mud puddles or tire thrown stones could damage a motor. They are not needed today, except as an original part of the car if going for trophies. They reduce airflow that would otherwise help lower the under hood air temperature.

5. Check ignition timing. Too much, or too little can make a motor run hotter. Franklin's don't gain by advancing the timing as some other motors may. Check to see that the timing is right on the factory setting.

6. Check the carburetor air/fuel ratio by inspecting the color of the center porcelain insulator of the spark plugs. Franklins like it a bit on the rich side. The motor develops better power and runs cooler compared to being a bit too lean. If it's lighter than a chocolate brown or dull black, richen the fuel mixture by turning the high speed jet out counter-clockwise in 1/4 turn increments, then road test.

While we're on the subject, NEVER lean out a Franklin motor to improve gas mileage. What little money may be saved will eventually have go toward replacing burned valves.

7. Check that the fuel system is in top working order and that there are no restrictions such as pinched, or kinked fuel lines. The fuel feed line from the vacuum tank to the carburetor should not have any part of it lower than the carburetor fuel inlet. Ideally all of that line should slope back up to the vacuum tank so that any vapor bubbles that start to form in it can pass the incoming fuel and go back up hill into the vac tank where they will eventually be vented.

8. Are the foot, or emergency brakes dragging ? If so readjust properly.

9. Open all hood vents if so equipped. If there are no hood vents, in hot weather unlatch at least the driver's side hood panel, roll up a towel, place the wad of towel under the rear corner of the hood and re-latch only the front latch. That will raise the rear of the hood and allow hot air on the fuel system side of the motor to vent out .

10. In hot weather don't lug the motor up hill, or at low speeds in traffic. Downshift ! It speeds up the motor so it gets more cooling air from the fan and it takes alot of load off the motor. Increased load on the motor equals more heat output from the motor, which means that there is more heat being passed over the fuel system. The more airflow that passes over and through the motor reduces the chances and or severity of vapor lock.

11. Are you breaking in a new motor? New motors tend to run tight and use alot of their power just overcoming friction as they wear-in. That makes them run a bit hotter than a broken-in motor. You may want to only drive during the cool hours of the morning while the motor is being broken-in.

Check over every part of the drive train carefully ! Anything that makes the motor work harder will also make it run hotter. Even simple things like using heavy weight motor oil, or low pressure in tires can increase the engine's temperature output.

Quite often the cause of vapor lock is not just one big fault, but a collection of several minor faults.

And if all else fails...........
The late Chapp Condit, a Club member who was a chemical engineer who worked for Franklin in the test shed, then later for Sunoco, said that adding kerosene to the gas will reduce the vapor pressure. He said not to use more than 10% kerosene by total volume or the motor temps will go up because kerosene is a hotter burning fuel than gasoline. I've yet to try this so I don't know for certain it works. However, Chapp was a very sensible and extremely experienced Franklin owner himself - if I had a car that was vapor locking I'd not hesitate to try it myself. Maybe some kind soul who is experiencing vapor lock in their Franklin will contact me with their results of trying 10% kerosene ?

Paul Fitz.

Hi Paul

Saw your writeup on this. Don Kitchin swears by adding 1 gallon of kerosene to a tank of gas in his 135 in case of vaporlock. I added it to the truck once many years ago but can't remember if it helped or not, I did make it to the Trek under my own power.

I like the towel holding the hood open trick. This lets the hot air out before it can run along the gasline under the car.

Am thinking about bringing the truck to the Trek one last time, but the cost of gas is putting me off.

In any event see you there, Gordon

June 28, 2008

QUESTION: OLYMPIC ENGINE RUNNING PROBLEMS

Hi Tom,

I just received my Franklin Service Station, and I was re-reading your reply to an Olympic owner’s running problem. I don’t know who he is, so I’ll direct my thoughts to you. Apparently Olympics use a different heat riser than other side-drafts, and the steel tube inside tends to rot out causing vacuum leaks and worse. Ken Spillman had this problem with his Olympic when it mysteriously stopped running altogether after a backfire blew the tube apart.

Steve

AMSWER: OLYMPIC ENGINE RUNNING PROBLEMS

Hi Steve -

I'm not sure which other models used the steel inner tube and which did not, but this is not an uncommon problem. It's a good thing to look for when odd, rough running conditions exist.

Thanks for the tip.

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 12 CLUTCH

Paul,

Concerning replacement of the throw-out bearing, I have been using the very helpful Q&A of March 2006. As a result I did not have to try to outrun that big spring!

I have obtained a new N1728 bearing and notice that the face which the throw-out forks will act upon is not flat as in the original bearing. There was no discussion of this in the Q&A. I attached a couple of photos to try to illustrate this. Click on "Play Slideshow" at the top of this message to enlarge the pics.

I have built up the worn areas of my forks but not yet re-contoured them. Do you think it is advisable to try to conform them to the N1728 shape? If I don’t, I feel there might be a squeal as the forks slow the bearing outer race each time I depress the clutch pedal.

I always appreciate your opinion.

Colin

ANSWER: SERIES 12 CLUTCH

Colin,

You should not have to make any modifications to the clutch forks, just about 1/16 inch of clearance grinding on the shaft in between the two forks.

Your picture of the new throwout bearing doesn't look like the correct one. I suspect NAPA is again having problems with the wrong bearing being put in the right numbered box. I issued a warning about this on the Q&A, page 9 - July 6th, 2006.

Take a look at the picture of the correct NAPA # N1728 throwout bearing including with the instructions for pulling the pressure plate apart - Q&A, page 9 - March 10, 2006.

Paul Fitz.

June 21, 2008

QUESTION: IGNITION SEE BELOW JUNE 12, 2008

June 20, 2008

QUESTION: 1915 WOOD WHEELS

Hello, Tom,

I am repairing the wheels on Lee Webb's 1915 Roadster, They were so loose that it was decided to re-wood them. They are currently at George Carrigan's Vintage Wheel Shop in Sonora. The question is, and I hope you can help us out, when the wheels were disassembled, it was found that they had used hex bolts and nuts previously, with the nuts facing outward. Can you tell us what is correct here? The holes in the hubs and flanges are round, so it does not appear that the high-head carriage bolts were ever used here, as those usually require a square hole.

Any help and/or advice is appreciated. Hope to see you, perhaps at Lee's next April.

Shel

ANSWER: 1915 WOOD WHEELS

Hi Shel -

Yes, Hex bolts of high grade were used with the nuts on the outside. They were tightened and the ends of the bolts were peined over to lock the nut in place. The domed head bolts in a square hole with nuts on the inside came alter - perhaps Series 11, but certainly by Series 12.

I'm sure Lee will feel much safer in that car with good, new wheels!

tom

June 12, 2008

QUESTION: IGNITION FUN QUESTION OR STATEMENT

On April 20 Dick mention some told him that you could use a dime to set the point gap . Of course Paul mentioned that advice was not worth a dime . What the old boys told me that back in the thirties when they did not have the tools to fix their cars they had to make do . To set your point gap use a penny post card which is about 20 thousands of an in thick . To day a good feeler gage is probably cheaper . It works . Another trick is if you have a cracked coil sand the coil wire terminal , plug the coil wire back in and you are off . Do not use any metallic sand paper , metallic sand paper will not work . It will get you home but not much farther . I have done both of these tricks back in the sixties and they work .

Glenn

ANSWER: IGNITION FUN QUESTION OR STATEMENT

Glen,
There is probably more advice from "Roadside Scholars" on how to fix cars than we can imagine ........ or should ever know !!! I agree that most of it probably came about from the "bailing wire and bubble gum" repair days of the depression. Today we have something much better ............... duct tape !

I know what you mean about those old boys. My father was one of those depression era "make do " type mechanics. Anything to keep the cars running !!!!

Also, my older brother and a partner ran a repair garage off our property in the 60's. I hung out watching them whenever possible. Sometimes at risk of life and limb to both car, workers, and spectators !!! I still can remember coming home from school and seeing my mother bandaging the partner because he got in the way of an axe that was being used to aid in removal of a blown motor.

In over 40 years of working around cars and marine engines I've heard alot of strange deviations from standard repair practices. One that comes to mind was a match book is the only tool need to measure both the ignition points and spark plugs. The match book cover was supposedly the correct thickness for measuring the point gap, and one of it's matches for the spark plug gap. Well not quite, but I guess it made some shade tree mechanics feel like they could ............ if they had to. Since I quite smoking long ago, I'm more likely to have a feeler gauge with me than a book of matches.

The coil sanding trick will sometimes work, but not if a carbon track forms in a deep crack, or gets really burned in deep. It may "re-track" after sanding.

I had that happen. It was with a Vertex aircraft magneto I was using in my everyday commuter car (a race prepped 72 AMX). During a long drive in a heavy rain storm it developed a carbon track "cross-fire short" in the cap between two of the spark plug wire connections. Felt like a motor mount had broken !!!!! I tried the sanding trick where I could get to as much of the track as possible, but it came back in a short time. Only true "fix" was limping home and getting a new cap. After finding out that I could have bought four regular distributor caps for what the new Vertex cap cost (and also wondering every time I saw rain clouds), it wasn't long before the magneto was out and the distributor was back in.

Paul Fitz.

Buddy can you spare a dime? I don't think this phrase was coined by a mechanic tuning up an automobile, but.................Lets look at some history. Prior to 1964 US coinage (dimes, quarters, half dollars and silver dollars) was made of .925 coin silver. That made them relatively soft and subject to wear. A Mercury dime (the Roosevelt dime didn't exist when our cars were new) was thin when it was new and with normal wear it got very thin to a degree that you couldn't even read it. Now Victor W. Page' was an automotive engineer in the teens and twenties of the last century and wrote more books on the subject than there are Franklins still in existence. He also wrote service, repair and owners manuals for many different brands of automobiles, Fords being one of them. On page 283 of the Ford Model A service manual & owners handbook he said 'It is also important that the distance between the spark points should be no more than 1/32 in., which is about the thickness of a worn dime.' He was speaking of the spark plugs, not the ignition points. This is not the word of a roadside shade tree mechanic but rather the printed word in a sanctioned service manual by a Society of Automotive Engineer. So the dime thing is not a myth but is really out there. Just thought some of you might like to know the basis for the dime story.

Bill

June 21, 2008

Paul
Another thing that always amassed me about the old guys who are no longer with us was that they could start and run an engine, run it all day ,shut it off and no one else could get it started . They could come back and fiddle with it for a moment and it would take right off . My late father was such a person . I always swore an automotive engineer could not have kept an engine going like he could , nor would the engineer want to .
Glenn

Glenn,
I can believe it. How many engineers had the amount of time involved with getting a motor running that had been out of a lab, in the real world, like the old mechanics had ?

Although, even some of those old guys could get stumped once in awhile, and it increases with the complexity of newer cars.

Guy who taught me paint work liked to tell of one such instance at a dealership he worked at back in the late 40's.

The dealership owner's wife complained of her new car stalling out. It would start fine, run for awhile then stall and take a long time to get it re-started. They brought the car in and couldn't find anything wrong, but then the next time she tried to drive it, the problem returned. Then, back in the shop and they had a more experienced mechanic check it over - same thing - nothing found wrong. Next time she drove it, problem returned. Finally the owner, tied of complaints on the home front says, "Fix it, or your all fired". The Service Manager (the most experienced mechanic in those days) drove to the house and asked the wife to get in and drive the car. She got in, took her keys out of her hand bag, put them in the ignition, pulled the choke all the way out and hung her hand bag on the choke handle. At least one guy new how to trouble shoot the problem !!!!

Fast forward to the mid 1970's and we've now got, "Factory Certified Mechanics" - nice fancy name !

I was out at my cousin's dealership scrounging parts out of a wreck when they got a call that a customer's car had quit. They sent a "B" mechanic and he couldn't find anything wrong, but couldn't get it started. They sent a more experienced "A" mechanic and he couldn't get it started either, so they towed it back to the shop and parked it in the ally behind the shop building until a repair bay opened up. When they went out to push it in the shop it was gone. It had been stolen !!!! Upon hearing this my cousin came out into the repair shop and announced that he was going to find out who had stolen the car and hire him because he was going to be firing all these " factory certified mechanics" !!!!!!

I never did hear if they ever found the guy who got it started.

Fast forward again to a year ago. My check engine light came on so I went to the local dealership. After an hour of their "Factory Certified Electronics Technician" (longer, fancier name) going over the car, they weren't sure what was wrong, but for $2500.00 they were certain they could fix it !!!!!

Melissa is a registered nurse - I now make sure to bring her along whenever I bring my car in to the repair shop .......... or go to a chrome plating shop for estimates !!!!!!

Paul Fitz.

June 8, 2008

QUESTION: OLYMPIC ENGINE RUNNING POORLY

Dear Tom -

It's me again. The Olympic guy. My car is running poorly and I am at a loss. I should tell you that about two months ago the engine started running rough. By rough, I mean that I would be cruising along and suddenly the engine would act like it was starved for fuel (short stalling - but not complete stalling). It would sputter and hack, backfire (slightly) and then it would be o.k. I decided to tear the engine partway down because I was leaking oil of a significant amount at the base of the push rod tubes. I figured out (correctly) that the sequence in which you install the walking beam cages is not arbitrary. This time I tightened the collar that holds down the push rod tubes first (nice and snug). Then I put everything back together. I received some ignition wiring from Rhode Island Wiring and made new cables. Since the engine had not been run for a couple of months, I was expecting some difficulty when trying to start it. But it did start. It was sputtering a lot but it calmed down and I was able to adjust the valves.

When I drove down the street everything seemed to be running fine. After about a block, however, the engine again acted like I had run out of gas (not possible because I just put in new gas before I started the engine). I tried to make it back to the house but could not. I tried to restart the engine to no avail. I came back to the car about 25 minutes later and the car barely started and I was able to get back home. I have checked the ignition timing and it appears to be spot on. I followed the procedure to wait until number six cylinder exhaust valve had just closed and checked the alignment with the fan markings. Then I started the engine again. It is still running quite rough. I tried to check the timing with a timing light that I have but the marks never seem to line up (this is what has me stumped). The valve timing has never been touched since Tony Giaimo set it over 40 years ago.

I strongly feel that my problem is a faulty carburetor. It is not original equipment (it's a Zenith) and has just been rebuilt. Another detail you should be aware of is that I am using an electric fuel pump (I never had any luck trying to rebuild and get the mechanical pump to work).

I don't want to leave anything out so I must tell you that I suspect that I have a leak in cylinder six (I hear a chirping noise when I rev the engine slightly).

I am stuck. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks a lot,
bob venable

ANSWER: OLYMPIC ENGINE RUNNING POORLY

Hi Bob -

Sounds frustrating.

To me, the main clue is that it ran well for a bit. Something has changed.

An adjustment has changed, or we have some other interruption to our air/fuel/spark supply.

See if you can get it running again and try easing out the choke while it is running poorly. If it picks up speed, it may well be fuel related. If not - ignition might be a more likely candidate.

If you are sure the timing is spot-on, how about the ignition points? Have they moved?
How about a spark test - does it through a good, hot spark while cranking? You mentioned your timing light was erratic. Perhaps you have intermittent spark

You've got a newly rebuilt carb - was it done recently? Any chance it's been sitting a long time and the float valve is sticky?
Do you have a fuel filter? Can you pull a jet externally from the bowl and watch for sediment/rust/dirt as you drain the bowl?
Do you know your electric pump is supplying good flow/pressure? You can remove a line and test it.

After double checking for flow and supply, I would go ahead and pull the carb and open it up. We're looking for rust/sediment. Be sure you can blow through all the circuits

Once you have gone through this list of tests, if you have not found it, let me know and we'll add to the list.

Just to be sure we're on the same page re pushrod tubes - the procedure on the Olympic is to screw the tubes into valve cage, bolt the cage onto the head with no rockers, screw the tubes down against the lifter guides, lock them with the lock nut and then clamp them. If you did it this way, you'll have no stress on any component and all should be fine.

Keep me posted.

tom

Tom

Our emails must have bumped each other. Thank you so much for the response. FUEL PUMP! Yep, that was my problem. It feels so good to be able to cruise down the street again. I gave it a two mile test drive and it performed flawlessly (except for the chirp I get out of number six. Is that a big problem or can I get to it when I get to it?). I really want to get some miles on my car because I've waited so long.

Thanks so very much.

May 15, 2008

QUESTION: 1928 CLUTCH

Hi Paul,

My clutch pressure plate has several radial cracks. I have found a pressure plate that has no cracks so would like to install it instead. I read in Q&A about maintaining the clutch/flywheel component orientations found at disassembly to preserve the balance and wonder if changing out the pressure plate could introduce a balance problem? Examination of the clutch items indicates each item has been drilled for balance purposes, so I would have thought Franklin did this to make them interchangeable from a balance viewpoint?

I plan to reline the clutch. I have 2 clutch plates. The fabric couplings in both appear to be in good condition but there is no detectable flexibility. On one disc the coupling is riveted and the other has round head screws with square nuts and washers. The threads are peened over. Should I replace the coupling? If so, where can I get replacements? Is either method of attachment acceptable?

There is significant wear on the forks which engage the throw-out bearing. Can I simply build up the worn areas with weld or does this need to be hard like, say, Stellite? I will be installing an N1728 bearing and have ordered the required new nut.

Q&A sez replace the pilot bearing. Q/A gives P/N 203 for a Series 13. Is it the same for a Series 12? If 203 is a NAPA number it does not show up in their system. By the way, neither does 1035 for an oil filter any more!! I tried their Ag online catalog too.

I think I should resurface the replacement pressure plate though it is not bad. Do you recommend pulling the flywheel and re-facing the pressure surface on it too?

Your help is appreciated as always.

Colin Hiley

ANSWER: 1928 CLUTCH

Colin,
It's my understanding that Franklin balanced the fan, crankshaft and flywheel/pressure plate separately, then as a unit. At least that's what they advertised in one of their brochures. I always have them balanced as a unit, and the clutch disc balanced by itself.

Having said that............
A few years ago, a 34 Franklin lost a couple of cooling fan fins during a Trek. As you can imagine the vibration was extreme. A replacement fan was given by a local member so that the 34 could get home. The fan was installed and the motor ran fine. But, I think that was just luck.

Old clutch centers can look good and one day, suddenly tear out. Replacements are not expensive, and there's no better/cheaper time to re-place them then when it's already apart. You can get new clutch fabric centers from club member Don Kitchen in Conn. Make sure he knows they are for a Series 12 clutch because the rivet hole pattern is different than the cooling fans. Before removing the old centers, punch mark the hub and disc so that when the new centers are installed you don't change the rotational orientation of the hub to the disc. Otherwise the rotational balance of the clutch disc may be off !!!!!

I have the riveting tools and always use duplicates of the original truss headed rivets and washers when installing new clutch disc and cooling fan centers. I won't use any other type fasteners because several years ago at a Trek, I was showing a club member how to adjust the valves on his 30 Sedan. While I was turning the hand crank, I heard a "plink" as something hit one of the cooling fan fins. There, stuck in the fins was a Nyloc nut !!!! The nylon insert has missing and the nut had come loose. Several of the other Nyloc nuts were also missing their inserts and were loose to varying degrees. Why the inserts were missing I don't know - but that can't happen with a properly installed rivet.

You can build up the forks with nickel steel, but having some wear on the forks doesn't seem to affect the clutch throw and adjustment much.

Series 12 on is the same throwout bearing.

I always have both the flywheel and pressure plate re-surfaced before re-balancing. Makes for a smoother acting clutch.

Paul Fitz.

Apeil 30, 2008

QUESTION: 1929 SERIES 130 WHEEL WABBLE GAS TANK

Having some minor problems with the car.

1. Has developed an occasional shimmy in the front end, usually at about 25-35 mph over a bumpy stretch of roadway. Are replacement pins (R-1003, Part # 36059) and bushings (R-1004, Part # 36071) available? Should other components be replaced as well and are the parts available?

2. The car has two gas tank problems. The vent leaks gas when it is trailered and the low end of the dip tube must be bad as it runs out of fuel below a half tank. Are any parts or drawings available? The car has an electric gage.

Any information will be appreciated, thanks

Due to a wedding in the family I will miss the Trek this year. I hope to make next years though if I can afford the gas by then.

Thanks again.
Don Taylor

ANSWER: 1929 SERIES 130 WHEEL WABBLE GAS TANK

Hi Don -

Wheel shimmy, or what the factory called "wabble" is a common issue on the Franklin with full elliptic suspension. In a classic scenario, it appears at low speed after hitting a bump 'just the right way' and will not stop until the brakes are applied hard.

There are a great many factors that contribute to the shimmy and it is rage that only one issue is entirely at fault. But sometimes correcting one, or two items will do enough to end the shimmy.

Loose king pins certainly contribute to shimmy. But it is possible to eliminate shimmy, even with badly worn king pins, by addressing other issues in the front suspension.

An article appeared in Air Cooled News in 2004 that thoroughly explored the symptoms and solutions. Do you have back issues?
Below is a segment from that article:

The Troubleshooters Manual lists 18 contributing factors to wabbling. I have added a couple more and put them at the top of the list as the first items to check.

The list, in some sort of a rough preferential order of importance and/or ease of checking:

1. Low tire pressure

2. Tires or wheel runout (factory calls for ¼” maximum runout)

3. Tires & wheels poorly balanced

4. Tire problems – tread separation, flat spots, uneven wear

5. Front end alignment out of adjustment

6. Spring pivot bolts out of adjustment, allowing side play between spring halves

7. Front wheel bearings loose

8. Hubs loose in wheels

9. Steering connections loose at tie rod and drag link joints

10. Springs loose where bolted to sill (and axle)

11. Spring clips loose (these are the u-shaped clips that hold the leaves in line, usually 4 per spring)

12. Steering box gears worn, or poorly adjusted

13. Steering arm loose on shaft or end-play in shaft

14. Steering device mount bolts loose (More important on Series 10 and earlier cars)

15. Excessive lubrication of front springs or poor shock absorber action

16. Front springs out of line

17. Up and down play in steering column (worm gear shaft)

18. Front sill brace bolts loose (not on all cars)

19. Excessive wear in king pins and bushings or up and down play

20. Engine rail bolts loose

Start at the top of the list and work on checking/repairing the other potential problems. I find that good balance will take care of most of the shimmy problems.

As far as the gas tank issues - you will need to pull the tank and sender/pickup and investigate. I do not know if there is a drawing - but study of the parts should reveal the problem. No replacement parts are available - you may need to repair the pickup tube.

Good luck - Let me know how things go.

Tom Rasmussen

April 27, 2008

QUESTION: COPPER FUEL TANK

Thanks for the quick reply. I have had many problems with the copper tank in the 1911 G. I was thinking about using gas tank sealer to isolate the copper from the fuel. What do you think? I’m afraid it won’t adhere and create a bigger nightmare than I have already.

ANSWER: COPPER FUEL TANK

I've sealed a couple copper tanks with the baked on PVC that Tank Renu franchises use. It's good, but I still kinda hate to do that to the nice copper. If a car is used, it's no problem. Otherwise, draining the tank is important. Beyond that, the copper tanks are a lot easier to clean out than steel - the goo and jello-like stuff will dissolve and wash out. If a tank is badly varnished, it would not have mattered if it was copper or steel - so it's best to keep tanks filled with fresh fuel, or drain them.

tom

April 26, 2008

QUESTION: STROMBERY OE-1 PARTS

Hi Tom,

Where can I get a gasket set for a Stromberg OE-1? I’m trying to get my father’s 10B running after sitting for eight years. By the way, ever seen gas turn bright green?

Steve

ANSWER: STROMBERY OE-1 PARTS

You can buy gaskets from John Hardgrove at The Carburetor Shop 573-392-7378

NOTE: All this information is listed in the index -

June 30, 2004

QUESTION: 11-A STROMBERG OE-1

Hi Tom,
You probably have the following reference for the some of the float problems questions for the above.
He has carburator repair kit for other models

The Carburator King
THE CARBURETOR SHOP, 204 EAST 15TH STREET, ELDON, MISSOURI 65026.

TELEPHONE - (573) 392-7378

TELEFAX - (573) 392-7176

tech@thecarburetorshop.com
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/

Repair kit no 1535 for the OE-1 on the 11-A

John says that his kit includes a needle and seat for the float. Cost is $125.00. Needs two to three weeks since it is all done on demand. He will throw in all the ring washers and the float gasket for the OE-1
He can do any other parts I think ( at a cost!) or even rebuild the whole carb. Probably not cheap and ... get in line!
I am having real problem taking the idle screw holding the small "straw" that feeds the idle adjustment on one of my carb; soaking in carb cleaner still not doing anything!
See you at the Trek
André

ANSWER: 11-A STROMBERG OE-1

Hi Andre -

I know Jon Hardgrove from The Carburetor Shop well. He does nice work and his kits are very nice.

The OE-1 carb is quite straightforward and you should not need his help in rebuilding it, other than a kit, perhaps. See my carb article in ACN a couple years back. The key to the OE-1's is not to mess up the air bleed jets and to have the venturi aligned properly. Sometimes the small venturi will break loose and not center correctly in the carb. This will make things run poorly.

I'm not completely clear what it is that is stuck on your carb. There is no substitute for good penetrating oil and TIME.

My Trek plans are fuzzy right now, but the fingers are crossed.

Thanks for thinking of me...

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 135 1929 COLORS/UPHOLSTERY

I have a 1929 135 sport sedan body # 625. It is now in a restoration shop. I need to know, what color would the engine and firewall normally be painted. I also have color swatches from spring 1931. Are these colors applicable to the 29 models? Also, I will be looking for original upholstery fabric or close. Do you know any sources? Richard

ANSWER: SERIES 135 1929 COLORS/UPHOLSTERY

Hi Richard -

The firewall was painted main body color. The engine was natural aluminum on all aluminum parts, black sheet metal, silver paint on manifolds and exhaust crossover pipe, silver paint on cylinders.

It is rare to see silver paint on cylinders as most folks like to see the copper fins. So most paint the cylinder bases black, high heat black on the heads & yoke tubes and leave the copper natural.

Oil lines were nickel plated, as was the line from the fuel pump to carburetor. Engine hardware was parkerized (black phosphate - dull).

Original color schemes are tricky. It sounds like you want to do an authentic job. Do you have any slight scrap of any original color still on your car? It's always easiest to match what was there. It can lurk in many places - under the ID plate on the firewall, around seat bases, under cowl vent, on door wood surrounding the door edges.

If you have no scraps at all, or want to change from the original colors, you can use the 1931 chips to zero in. What basic colors are you shooting for? Putting together multiple contrasting colors requires care to produce something that is period correct. I've got some of these ships as well - tell me what you're thinking and I'll see if I can help.

You say it is a Sport Sedan. Does this mean is has leather interior? Is the rear quarter blind?

There are several suppliers of leather out there. For broadcloth, the supply is much more limited. Tell me what you're thinking and I'll send some names your way.

Tom Rasmussen

Hi Tom:
What color should the inside of the hood be painted? And what are "protectahood panels". Something to keep the high temperatures from blistering the paint?
John

Same as the outside.

April 21, 2008

QUESTION: BRAKE CHATTER

Tom,
Bill and I are going to try adjusting the end play on my transmission shaft again to get rid of the brake chatter. I think it is now about .0015". Is it safe to eliminate all? Since the steel shaft and aluminum case have different coefficients of expansion I assume changing temperatures would change the endplay possibly placing stress on the bearings. What endplay should we shoot for at room temp?
Wendell

ANSWER: BRAKE CHATTER

Hi Wendell -

0.0015 is not much - you may not realize any gain from this exercise. Unless you mean 0.015", in which case you will make a difference.

Yes, zero is fine as the clearance will grow with heat. Avoid pre-load, remember, the case contracts when COLD...

tom

April 20/21, 2008

QUESTION: SLOW STARTING 1929

Another question. I'm trying to give my distributor a new condenser and I'm also putting a positive ground wire on mine to make it start better (hopefully) Like the last Franklin service station talked about). Did you see that stuff my the boys in Minn. ? Mine has always been slow to start and I go through a rigmarole like leave the key off, turn over the engine 6 times, pull out the choke half way, turn on the key, put the throttle about open 1/3rd Give it a go. That usually helps . Maybe this new ground wire will solve the problem. But anyway, my question is how much do you have to remove of the distributor until you can just get at the screw to the bracket that loosens the capacitor? Plus the screw to the wire end of the capacitor is almost impossible to get at to loosen so you can remove that wire. Just what steps do you have to do to change this item and then how do you set the gap on the new part there ? Somebody said to put a dime for about a 10 ,000th to 15 000th gap. Is that right? And how do you set the gap anyway? Is it when it sits on a particular part of the center post which has different levels to it?

Dick G.

ANSWER: SLOW STARTING 1929

Always attach any grounding wire for the distributor head at mounting screws that go through the sides of the distributor head, but not at any other electrical connections.

Grounding the distributor head, as recommended in the Franklin Service bulletin is a good thing to do, but in my experience it's rarely the only culprit for slow starting with a 70+ year old car. If the motor eventually starts, and continues to run decently, poor starting is usually because of a bunch of "little problems" in the starting, ignition and fuel systems. Small problems that individually don't seem like much, but collectively contribute to slow starting, while allowing the motor to run once it does get started. Only way to get a poor starting motor to be an easy starting motor is to take the time to thoroughly check for and eliminate any problems - no matter how minor they may seem to be.

Here's a check list of the more common faults that can cause poor starting. Because they can be "collective faults", I recommend that all be checked.

Electrical system.
1. All electrical connections in the ignition, and starter motor system, including ground paths back to the battery. All must be clean of corrosion, oil and paint. Once cleaned, coat all connections with commercial electric aluminum wire anti-corrosion paste (including ground paths back to the battery such as all contacting surfaces of at least one motor mount on steel chassis cars).
2. Breaker points worn, or not properly adjusted.
3. Loose, or oily spark plug wire connections.
4. Dirty spark plug porcelain insulators.
5. Oil inside distributor on breaker point/condenser mounting surfaces.
6. Oil in the spark plug wire terminal sockets of the distributor cap. Clean out and fill sockets with anti-corrosion paste before inserting spark plug wire terminals in. Wipe off excess paste. This will keep motor oil spray out of the cap sockets.
7. Spark plug and cylinder threads oily. Clean and coat with anti-corrosion paste.
8. Spark plug gaps worn, or set too wide. Reset gaps to factory recommended. Use a "wire" type gap checking tool on used plugs.
9. Using "spark suppression" resistor type spark plug wires. Only use solid core wires with 6 volt systems.
10. Using "resistor" type spark plugs, or in-line spark suppressors. Remove and use "non-suppression" type spark plugs.
11. Bad, or wrong condenser. Don't buy NOS condensers at swap meets when new ones are still available from auto parts stores.
12. Weak ignition coil, or coil wires swapped giving wrong coil polarity.
13. Distributor cap and wires worn out, or new, but covered with road dust. Road dust (salts) on any parts of the ignition and starting systems bleeds off power to ground.
14. Starter motor turning over too slowly because it needs to be rebuilt.
15. Old, or too small of a capacity battery.

Mechanical
1. Low cylinder compression.
2. Ignition timing off.
3. Insufficient valve clearance.
4 . Camshaft timing off.

Fuel system.
1. Fuel pump lacks sufficient capacity, needs rebuilding.
2. Air leak into fuel line between gas tank and fuel pump.
3. Air leak in vacuum line, or tank of a vacuum tank fuel pump.
4. Partially plugged fuel system.
5. Improper carburetor float level.
6. Improper carburetor idle air adjustment.
7. Choke not closing enough. Motors with reduction gear starter motors, and updraft carburetors need more choke than motors with more modern direct-drive starter motors and downdraft carbs. Large carburetor motors like the sidedrafts usually need full choke at least until they start to fire.
8. Air leaks into carburetor fuel passageways. Especially if using original type "potmetal" diecast carburetors from the late 1920's.
9. Potmetal venturis of brass, or iron carburetors starting to crack/crumble.
10. Air leak at worn carburetor throttle shaft.
11. Throttle plate sides worn, or throttle plate re-installed in throttle shaft incorrectly.
12. Air leak at carburetor mounting flange, intake manifold joints, or vacuum line to wiper motor.
13. Electric Primer solenoid stuck open.
14. Missing fuemer - mounting hole in underside of carburetor not blocked off.

Sounds like you may be confusing the condenser (I use the old word for capacitor) with the breaker points.

And if someone tells you to set the point gap using a dime as the measurement ........ a dime is ten times more than their advice is worth. The point gap should be .020 inch and a dime is about .050 inch thick. With that much point gap your car would never start because the breaker points
would never close. That would be the same as leaving the ignition key in the off position !!!!!

To set or check the breaker point gap ......
First thing is to make sure the ignition key is off, parking brake on, and the transmission in neutral. Then, with the distributor cap off and safely to one side, hand crank the motor over while watching the breaker points to see when the breaker point arm rubbing block is resting on the highest point of one of the lobes of the distributor breaker cam (that center shaft with the six bumps on it). You want it so that a cam lobe is holding the breaker point contacts at their widest opening or "point gap".

The gap is checked by inserting a .020 inch thick feeler gauge in the point gap and feeling for the slightest amount of drag as you slide the gauge through the gap. Be very careful to keep the gauge in line with the point gap, or you'll get a false reading.

If there is no drag on the feeler gauge, or too much drag ......Adjusting the breaker point gap is done by first loosening the screw that locks the breaker point plate in position. It's the screw with a head that overlaps the plate in a slot that runs in an in /out direction. Then adjust by slightly turning the eccentric screw , the screw head which is down in the plate in a slot that runs in more of a side / side direction. Turning the eccentric screw moves the breaker point plate in or out in relation to the distributor cam, thus opening, or closing the gap between the breaker contact points. The size of the gap is critical so be as precise as you can.

Installing, and adjusting the breaker points unfortunately is one of those jobs that looks easy, but can be frustrating. It's a tough area to see and work in and it takes a very genital touch to get an accurate adjustment. Then when you have the right adjustment, tightening the locking screw will sometimes shift the point plate out of adjustment. It's not uncommon that it takes a few tries to get it adjusted and tightened down in the right position. But, with a bit of practice it can be learned. If your not sure, don't forget there's a bunch of us who give free lessons at the Trek. Except, stay clear of that dime guy !!!).

Also, having the right tools makes it much easier. Tools such as the right sized "stubby" type screw driver with new-sharp edges, a small screw-holding type screw driver for putting the screws back in, a 1/4 inch wrench for the hex head/slotted screw that holds the point leaf spring and condenser wire connection, and an angled feeler gauge set like Sears sells (Craftsman brand).

Let me know what you find.

Paul Fitz.

Thanks a lot for all the info. Will print it out and take it out to the garage to work on some of this stuff. I just got some grease for that little shaft greaser cup on the side of the distributor. I filled up the cup . But can you tell me if you are supposed to just tighten the cup all the way down at that point or just screw it in until you feel a slight resistance which would be forcing just a little of the grease into the unit. I can't see if anything is coming out inside. I read someplace that every so often, then, I should turn the cup in another ????turn to force more grease in. Probably until it bottoms out and then you start over with more grease fill up? I can't seem to find anything written on the subject---even on the side of the tube of grease. Do you put this grease anywhere else in the distributor or just in that cup? I'm going to get new spark plug wires as I have no idea how old mine are (1929 S 135) How do you get the old ones out and the new ones in (I mean as far as shoving them into that pipe on the right side of the engine) Would you leave the rubber cups off the ends of the wire until you get them pushed through and then put those back on the wires or what?) Also I have a sheet that tells the firing order of the cylinders but how can you tell What cylinder is #1 and then front to back what the numbers are? And there are no numbers on the distributor so how do you figure out which is which on that unit. Once I have them accounted for I was going to mark each wire as to which cylinder it is going to (at both ends) Wrap a label maker number around the wire etc. I heard that bit about using a dime to set the gap just from a guy in SC who just bought a Franklin. I wasn't taking it as gospel but was going to use my digital caliper to measure a dime to see just what that really is. I do have a gap gauge. I have put new spark plugs in the car last year . I just bought a condenser that was $9.00 plus. The guy at the auto parts store said he also had one that was $2.00. Not sure why one is better than the other but I got the most expensive one. I had a box with a number on it that came with the one that is on the car so we traced it through that. Hopefully it is the right one. I also got some of that electronic spray that cleans and dries grease and gunk from electronic parts . It's CRC Lectra=Motive Electric Parts Cleaner. Then I have already replaced my 6 volt Coil several years ago. I also have some red liquid used by model railroaders called Rail Zip which makes excellent electrical contact between wires etc. It was used in the space program. Anyway, I have been doing just one thing at a time and then starting the car with just that one improvement to see if there is any noticeable improvement rather than doing 10 things and wondering which one was the one that helped the most. The ground wire I just added was just like the one suggested in the last Franklin Service Station that we just got. It mentions, interestingly enough, that Series 12, 13 and 14 (I think it said) are famous for having these hard starting problems and that this ground wire should help. Did you see that? Someone before I owned the car has added a fuel pump in the rear near the gas tank which only pumps when I push a button they put on the dash. I gather this is to fill the gas bulb and prime the engine a bit after it has been sitting for a time. Lately when I push that button nothing happens. No pumping. I haven't found that I really need this pump. What do you think?

Dick G.

Dick,

Good to hear your taking your time and being thorough. The first rule of trouble shooting is fix just one thing at a time then test it. Good habit to get into even if only for the satisfaction of knowing what caused the problem.

And I'd shy away from anyone advising the use of coins, silverware, body parts, or whatever as measuring devices. 99% of the tools needed to maintain a Franklin are still being made, reasonably priced, and are available from many tool suppliers.

Half choke on a Series 135 ? Once you've gone through and checked/fixed all, try experimenting by adding a bit more choke each time you start it until it either floods, or starts better. The idea is to see if using more choke makes it easier/faster starting. Then you'll know how much the motor really needs. Note how far out the choke handle was by how many fingers can fit between the handle and the dash. Always use that amount with a cold motor. And as soon as the motor fires, push the choke in to the point where the motor runs smoothest while it warms up. After a few minutes of the motor running you should be able to put the choke in all the way.

Some 1920's-30's Franklins start better by also pulling out the spark handle to retard the spark. If the distributor timing isn't set too far advanced, most start fine without it. Don't over advance the ignition timing on a Franklin. Nothing to be gained like on some motors and it starts to beat up on the connecting rod bearings.

Just so that everyone who reading this is aware, many of these maintenance questions are already well covered in the second half of the owner's manual. I'll take this opportunity to STRONGLY recommend that every Franklin owner get a copy of the owner's manual for their car(s) and read it. It's chock-full of valuable information. The Club Library has high quality reprints for sale so there's no excuse for not having one. Even if the owner is not going to be doing the work on the car themselves, it will give them a better understanding of the car and how to properly operate it. It also tells whoever does work on the car how to properly go about it.

Lubrication......
If it's a good quality high temp grease such as Quaker State all-purpose wheel bearing grease, I only turn the distributor grease cup in fully about every 1000 miles. Good quality, modern high temp grease lasts a long time. You don't want to over grease at this point. The grease not only lubes the distributor drive shaft bushings, it also gets squeezed up under the breaker plate to the centrifugal advance mechanism. If too much grease gets up in there it can be pushed up into the breaker points area.

Leave the grease cup turned all the way in. There is a leather o-ring seal in a groove at the inner end of the grease cup fitting that seals the cup threads. Keeps grease in, dirt out. !

Put a very tiny smear of the same grease on the breaker point camshaft lobes.

Lift off the rotor and put several drops of motor oil on the felt wick inside the breaker point camshaft. And one drop of motor oil on the breaker point arm pivot shaft.

Just use good quality, modern lubricants. Where Franklin specifies "oil" for the suspension, drive shaft, steering box, and wheel bearings, you can use Quaker State all purpose grease. It comes in tubs, or grease gun tubes. Make sure to fill the steering box completely when using grease - unless it's a Gemmer steering box that's been re-built by Dick Pratt - then follow his recommendations for what lubricant to use.

New spark plug wires.....

Whenever removing a distributor, or replacing it's cap or wires, it makes life easier to first turn the motor over to TDC (top dead center) of the number one cylinder.

Finding number one......
For in-line motors the number one cylinder is toward the front of the car, six to the rear. With the ignition key off, valve cover off the number one cylinder, hand crank the motor until the timing mark on the fan lines up with the timing mark on the fan housing and both of number one cylinder's valves are closed.

The distributor makes one turn for every two of the crankshaft, so you may have to turn the fan around again to get the timing marks lined up at the point where both of number one cylinder's valves are closed. That's top dead center of number one cylinder. Now, whichever contact the distributor rotor is pointing at inside the distributor cap is where the number one spark plug wire gets plugged into the cap.

Franklin distributors turn clockwise when viewed looking down into the distributor. The other spark plug wires get installed in the cap in a
clockwise sequence of the firing order 1-4-2-6-3-5. You can either mark the spark plug wires beforehand (tape makes wire pulling more difficult and can get pulled off coming through the loom), or, once the wires are installed, hold one lead of a volt/ohm meter which has been set on the high ohm scale to a spark plug end of a wire, then touch the other lead to each wire at the distributor cap. When the meter needle goes to zero that's the other end of that wire. Do each wire in turn and plug it into it's socket in the distributor cap.

Installing new spark plug wires in a downdraft motor ......Getting new spark plug wires into a downdraft motor wire loom tube is not easy. I use a "pulling harness" of strings that get tied to the end of each new wire. First check to see if the old wires fit properly without being too short to stay well connected, or excessively long. Pull them out and use them to cut new lengths of wire. Don't forget to make any needed corrections to their length, plus add at least a half inch to each end for stripping off the insulation and connecting the wire to the end terminals. Only use solid core Spark plug wire.

The new wires and strings are laid out so that the ends of the wires are staggered in length to match the distance between where each wire comes out of the loom for it's respective cylinder. Tie a string onto each wire at this end. These will be the spark plug ends of the wires. The other ends of the strings are all tied into one knot at a distance from the wires greater than the length of the loom.

The knotted end is then fed through the wire loom from the distributor end of the loom. Sometimes the inside of the loom is rough from rust, or a build up of oily dirt and you can't push the strings through with a stick. Wad a paper towel into the end of the strings at the knot and blow it through with air from a compressor. Once the knotted end of the strings comes through the loom, start feeding the wire bundle into the loom while keeping tension on the string bundle.

As the wire ends come even with their respective opening in the loom, hook that string and pull the end of each wire out throughit's loom opening. Undo that string and pull enough wire out to reach up though the air shroud to the spark plug in a genital curve (about a foot of length).

Place a new rubber escutcheon over the wire and work the escutcheon's flange through the opening in the loom (sets of new escutcheons are available through the Franklin Club Project's "The Franklin Store"). The narrow end of the escutcheon gets jammed up into the wire hole in the underside of the air shroud to protect the wire from chaffing on the edges of sheetmetal, and it also seals cooling air leaks at the wire hole. When the wires are in place, install the spark plug terminals on the ends of the wires. If you can, solder the wires directly to the terminals in addition to crimping them on.

Did you check the gap on all the new plugs when they were installed ???? You want a "tight" .025 inch gap to help make starting easier.

Yes, I saw the Service Bulletin about grounding the distributor head many years ago. I made up a bunch of those wires and have been installing them ever since. Still, if everything is in good shape, I find adding that grounding wire doesn't make as much difference as one would expect.

Electric fuel pump.....
If the electric fuel pump is hooked up to a push button switch, I'd also assume it was only meant for priming. Many of the electric fuel pumps on cars today were installed back in the 1980's and earlier when there were alot of problems with vapor lock. Fortunately, vapor lock is not the problem it used to be. Electric pumps are nice to have for priming when the car has been sitting for a long time, otherwise, I'd put my money into properly rebuilding the fuel pump that was originally meant for the car.

Paul Fitz.

April 11, 2008

QUESTION: CONCENTRIC VALVES - COMMENTS

I have had great pleasure of the Vintage Franklin book and am duly impressed by the cars. However, I am rather intrigued by the 1908 concentric valve system. Does there exist any drawing to explain it?

Also, could you possibly identify what model this Franklin is? The photo was taken in Stockholm, Sweden about 1906.

Thanks for all help,

Björn
Ringblommegatan 42
SE-426 68 Västra Frölunda

ANSWER: CONCENTRIC VALVES - COMMENTS

From Chet Zimmerman - As for identification of the car, we believe it is a 1904

There is an exhaustive write-up on Franklin valve in ACN 151 and 152. This is a quick summary of the concentric valve operation.

For model years 1908 to 1910, Franklin used concentric overhead valves along with the cam operated auxiliary exhaust valves operating on ports cut through the cylinder wall near the bottom of the stroke. These auxiliary ports are similar to the exhaust on a two-stroke engine and are ported by the piston. Since this is a four-stroke engine, the auxiliary valve closes off the port at the bottom of the intake stroke to prevent exhaust gasses from being sucked back into the cylinder.

The associated Fig. A is an advertising cut of these valves. The operation is shown in tracings of this cut in Fig. B, C, and D.

The exhaust valve (red) is the inner of the two and consists of a normal poppet valve with a stem rising through the suction valve and is operated by a normal rocker arm at the very top of the engine.

The suction valve (blue) is the outer of the two valves. It is a hollow bell containing the exhaust valve guide, the exhaust valve seat on its inner lip, fenestrations to allow exhaust gases to pass through to the manifold, and two distinct valve stem surfaces. The large diameter stem acts as a moving seal to keep the exhaust gases in the upper part of the valve cage separate from the inlet gases in the lower part. The smaller stem acts simply as a normal (but hollow) valve stem. The spring keeper consists of a large split disk engaging a groove near the top of the valve and held in its outer diameter by a dished washer. This split disk is also the surface against which the forked rocker arm for the inlet valve works.

The valve cage (green) has a path from the inlet manifold to the lower portion of the casting and a path to the exhaust manifold from the upper portion. These two chambers are separated by a horizontal septum which has a hole that forms the large, lower valve guide for the inlet valve which in turn forms a sliding seal to keep the septum intact. The suction valve seat is ground into the lower lip of the cage and the cage in turn is sealed to the top of the cylinder.

To follow the gas flow through its operation, please refer to the figures.

During the power (and compression) stroke in Fig. B, both valves are tight against their seats and no gas flows. Both the exhaust valve spring as well as the suction valve spring holds the suction valve to its seat. The auxiliary exhaust valve is open, but its port is closed off by the piston until near the bottom of the power stroke.

During the exhaust stroke in Fig. C, the suction valve is held tight on its seat by its spring and the exhaust valve is opened by the upper rocker arm. The gas flows from the cylinder through the gap between the outside of the exhaust valve and the inside of the suction valve, up through the hollow portion of the suction valve, through the three fenestrations in the side of the suction valve and finally out through the upper portion of the valve cage to the exhaust manifold. The auxiliary exhaust valve is still open and exhaust gases flow through it when the piston is near the bottom of the stroke but its port is closed off by the piston shortly after the piston starts to rise on the exhaust stroke.

During the suction stroke in Fig. D, the exhaust valve is held tight against the suction valve by its spring and the suction valve is opened by the forked rocker arm acting on the suction valve spring-keeper disk. The exhaust valve rides with the suction valve as it is pushed down into the cylinder. Both the exhaust valve spring and the suction valve spring are compressed. Because the rocker arms are balanced to ride against the push rod, there is a huge gap between the rocker and the end of the exhaust valve stem. This gap is not as bad as it may seem since it is returned to a small gap well before the exhaust valve operates. The mixture flows from the intake manifold through the lower portion of the cage, past the inlet valve and into the cylinder. It is not short circuited to the exhaust manifold by virtue of the exhaust valve being seated to the inside of the suction valve and the lower valve guide on the suction valve forming a seal between the lower and upper portions of the cage. The auxiliary valve is closed prior to its port being exposed at the bottom of this stroke.

What could be simpler?

Bouvard Hosticka

Thank you very much for your efforts in answering my questions. The material on the concentric valves does clear things up excellently. As for the car, your (Bouvard's) suggestion of the 1904 model seems to fit very well, regarding, as you say, the closeness of the tonneau and the grillwork. But Frank has given me some delightful pictures, with the Fokker Triplane standing by the car!
I appreciate very much my Franklin contacts.
Best regards,
Björn

What nice pictures! Thank you. I like these barrel-hood cars. They show the same functional thinking as in the French Delaunay Belleville, of which I have written an article which will soon appear in the English magazine The Automobile.

Björn

April 3, 2008

QUESTION: U-3 NEEDLE AND FLOAT

Hi Tom,
I contacted you about pulling brakes in Jan. and am just now getting around to addressing that issue. I awakened the Franklin from its long winter slumber but another issue has arisen.
Do you know of a source for a needle and seat for the float chamber. The Carb, Stromberg U3, is overflowing and there are a couple of deep scratches in the seat. I checked the float level and a 9/16ths drill will pass between the gasket surface and the top center of the float with the valve closed. The car is a 1930 mod 145. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Mauss
P.s. They are predicting snow here for Thurs. Ugh!!

QUESTION: U-3 NEEDLE AND FLOAT

Mike,
Tom forwarded your question to me.

Have a machine shop re-machine the faces of the needle and seat you have, and test it for leakage.

As to the 9/16 float level........
It's not measured from the gasket to the top of the brass float. More modern downdraft carbs are measured to the float, old updraft Strombergs are not. The 9/16 inch is the measurement from the bowl gasket line down to the actual fuel level in the fuel bowl while the car is idling on level ground - with a fuel pump pressure of 2- 4 psi.

Just so your aware, if your using an electric fuel pump running higher fuel pressure than that mentioned, you'll have to lower the float level about 1/64 inch for every 1 psi increase. Don't go over 7 - 8 psi as that type needle and seat setup can't handle higher pressures affectively.

Only way to accurately measure the true float level is to make a float level site tube. All the parts needed can be found at a hardware store.

Drill a hole through the center axis of a 1 inch long, 5/16 -24 mild steel bolt. Then drill another hole through the shank of the bolt intersecting the center axis hole. Solder a short piece of tubing into the head end of the bolt. Clamp a length of vinyl tubing to the soldered-in