Franklin

Answers and Questions Page #2

The H. H. Franklin Club publishes the information listed in FAQ's solely as a convenience to its members. No endorsement is made by the Club or Region, no claim or warranty is made as to the accuracy of any of this information. No responsibility is assumed for any transactions resulting form this information. Most technical questions are answered by members that work on Franklins every day.

Many technical questions have come to the WebMaster desk as will as questions directed to other members. In most cases we find the questions an answers to be of valuable help in finding parts replacement, oils, or just plain technical help.

In the weeks and months to come we will place the un-edited questions and answers here for your information and help. Should you have a question, please feel free to e-mail us with them. If we do not have the answer we will find some one that can help. You will receive your reply by e-mail as well as have it placed here for other members information. However, we will only list question an answers that are from Club members.

Thanks goes out to those members that have taken the time to reply to e-mail forward to them by this WebMaster. As always, the Franklin Spirit of helping one another is alive and well. Our Franklin hat is off the you, thanks. Starting June 17, 1998 we will list the name of the technical person answering the question.

OLDEST QUESTION AND ANSWER FIRST and NEWEST LAST

Page number 2, questions start in January 1999

Last Revised January 20, 2000

January 31, 1999

QUESTION: SYNTHETIC OILS

My name is Dick Gaskill and I'm from Michigan . I've been to the last two Treks and after 45 years I found my Grandma's Franklin and bought it back. It's a 1929 S-135 4 door SD. Very Much enjoyed your two oil articles in the ACN. I'm aware it is not a good idea to just put modern Detergent type oils into the Motor without a complete cleaning first.

When I got the car, the guy gave me a case of Non Detergent 40 Wt. oil which I plan to use. After that I was thinking Mobil 1 Synthetic would be my choice. I know you talk about that as being a good choice but the subject of Detergent Oil seems to be abandoned and no more comments made about that when it comes to synthetics. I read the qt bottle and it isn't clear whether this is detergent or not. It just makes a passing comment that it helps to keep engines clean or something like that.

Can I simply switch over to Mobil 1 sythetic and not worry about it? Or should I stick to non detergent oils of another brand until such time as the engine is given a through cleaning? (For which I don't have much inclination to do at this point)

We are all using Synthetic Oils in our modern cars in our family at the moment. A Jeep, a Chev. A toyota and a Pontiac---alll with good results. But that's a horse of another color.

Being that sythetics seem to work very well under hot conditions and Race Car drivers use it----I'm guessing that part of it would be great in a Franklin which runs quite hot.

Do you have catalogues or papers on the types of services and parts that you can provide on a 1929 Franklin? I went to your program at last year's Trek and enjoyed that very much. Even though I rode in this car back from 1935 to 1953 with Grandma I really never gave it much thought until now---since I have it back in our garage.

ANSWER: SYNTHETIC OILS

That sure sounds like a great car & what a great story!

You're wise to hold off on the synthetic for now. All synthetic oil is high-detergent and should not be run in an engine that has not previously been run on detergent oil, or at least cleaned out.

It's not too difficult to pull down the pan and clean out the crankcase. This also gives you a change to take a peek at a few bottom end components like bearings and oil pump.

If all checks out o.k., then you can run synthetic and feel confident the old girl's in pretty good shape. If you find problems, then you can fix them and be glad you didn't find them out the hard way (like having a rare, Lynite Franklin connecting rod be lost after it exits through the crankcase wall!)

Of course, running straight 40W is fine in an old engine.

Best of luck & let me know how she runs!

Tom Rasmussen

March 4, 1999

QUESTION: REBUILDING A 1928 MASTER CYLINDER

ANSWER: REBUILDING A 1928 MASTER CYLINDER

As a result of the publication of Website FAQ's in the Franklin Service
Station, Paul Fitzpatrick says that, in answer to the question of
"Rebuilding a 1928 Master Cylinder", a re-building kit for that master
cylinder, including piston, can be furnished by Tom Hannaford, Antique Auto
Parts Cellar, P. O. Box 3, South Weymouth, MA 02190. Phone 781-335-1579.
Kit would be same for '29 car as well.

March 8, 1999

QUESTION: STARTER REMOVAL '30' MODEL 14

I THINK MY STARTER IS ABOUT TO GIVE UP THE GHOST AND I AM GOING TO HAVE TO REMOVED IT TO GET IT WORKED ON. IN LOOKING AT THE DRAWINGS IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS TWO MAIN SECTIONS. ON BOLTS ON THE BELL HOUSING AND CONTAINS THE BENDIX DRIVE. THE SECOND PORTION LOOKS LIKE IT IS THE FRONT BELL FOR THE MOTOR.

I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE A REAL TUSSLE TO GET THE BENDIX DRIVE TO COME OUT WITH THE STARTER INTACT THEREFORE PERHAPS THE ANSWER IS TO TAKE THE FRONT BELL OFF OF THE BENDIX CASTING. THE ADDITIONAL PROBLEM MIGHT BE THAT THIS HAS A WOODRUFF KEY AND IT MIGHT BE TOUGH TO REALIGN .

IT LOOKS LIKE NO MATTER WHICH WAY I DO IT , I WILL HAVE A PROBLEM PLEASE LET ME HAVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. I REALLY ENJOYED YOUR ARTICLE ON LUBRICATION. I GOT A LOT OUT OF IT AND HAD FOLLOWED YOUR PREVIOUS ADVICE TO NOT USE MARVEL OIL ON VALVE MECHANISM. I
CURRENTLY USE PARTIAL SYNTHETIC WORKING MY WAY UP TO FULL SYNTHETIC IN TO MORE OIL CHANGES. EVERY THIRD HAIRCUT I GET I CHANGE THE FRANKLIN OIL. I GOT QUITE A
BIT OUR JEFF AND YOUR DISCUSSION , IN CAZ , ON CLUTCHES AND SHIFTING. CAN ALMOST DO IT WITH ALARMING THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD.

ANSWER: STARTER REMOVAL '30' MODEL 14

Good to hear from you - glad you're still running the car!

The starter will come out in one piece. You need only to remove the electrical cable and then the 3 bolts holding the entire unit to the bell housing. You do have to wiggle it around a bit, you night try to remove it from below - I find this easier.

You must be very careful when removing the main electrical cable. The stud that the cable attaches to is soldered to the main field coils and is very easily damaged if much twisting force is applied to the stud. You should examine this joint when you have the unit removed.

Otherwise it's a fairly simple unit. Armatures can be rewound and field coils are available. Brushes are available as well. If you need these parts, let me know and I can get them for you or steer you to a source.

Whatever you are doing, it sounds like you're having a ball, so you must be doing things right. Keep it up!

Tom

March 11, 1999

QUESTION: PAINT COLORS

Great Web Site for the Franklin Club! I am a relatively new member and I really enjoyed going through the site.

I am embarking on the restoration of a #5 condition 1929 130 Sedan, six wire wheels. As I start to restore the car piece by piece, part of the chassis restoration will include the wire wheels and rims. I would like to have the wire wheels powder coated. Since I have not seen any 1929 sedans at shows, I need to know what color choices there were for the wheels, and for that matter, the body. Do you know of anyone who would have a color chip or reference chart for the color combinations appropriate for a 1929 130?

Don

ANSWER: PAINT COLORS

Dear Don,

I am not aware of any color scheme list for Series 130 cars. I have some 1929 Franklin paint chips, but they give no indication of which colors were used where. We know that the Factory used several different schemes for a period of time, perhaps a month or more, and then changed the schemes. There is data available for 1930 & 31 cars in the company service bulletins, but I have not seen earlier service bulletins.

The only way I know to make certain your car is done correctly is to find traces of original paint on your car. I have been able to determine original paint scheme on cars that have been completely restored by looking very carefully. Are there any traces of original paint on your car?

A second choice would be to study another car known to be original.

Absolutely the best way to go are the above methods. There are a few general things about 1929's I can throw in:

The body & molding color will likely dictate wheel color options. Most of the '29 wheels were black, but I have seen Maroon wheels with a maroon body and black fenders, straw wheels on several cars - most notably with green or gray body combinations. I would bet that all 130's had black fenders. I know of a 130 sedan, all original with blue body, black fenders and black wheels. I don't remember the stripe color. If you go with 'colored' wheels, usually the stripe would match the wheels unless the wheels were the same as the body color.

I wonder if the HH Franklin Club Library would have service bulletins from 1929. If so, there very well could be color schemes listed. Give Lloyd Davis a call to find out, he's listed in the directory (Vermont).

Good luck!

Tom Rasmussen

March 15, 1999

QUESTIONS: SERIES 11 ENGINE BEARINGS

I've been enjoying the website as well as the Question and Answer section in particular. I am looking for main bearings and rod bearings for my 11A. Are there any suggestions out there?

Thanks

Bryan

ANSWER: SERIES 11 ENGINE BEARINGS

Bryan -

The bearings you need are not readily available. The bearings must be poured babbitt. The rods are tricky as few babbitt shops like to tin to the aluminum. I have had excellent success on quite a few rod sets. You can contact me for more information if you wish, or contact some babbitt shops and ask them if they have experience with Lynite connecting rods. I had always hoped to manufacture Series 10 and 11 rod bearing inserts, but the tolerances on those rods varies tremendously. Re-babbitting is the way to go. Just be certain a reputable shop handles it.

The mains are a similar problem. It is simple to re-babbitt eh main caps. The case, however, had solid babbitt insert bearings. You can pour babbitt directly into the case and align-bore the 7 mains, or make bronze insert shells for the upper bearings and have them babbitted, then bored.

If your crankshaft is not worn and you just have one or two bad shells, you might be able to locate replacements throught advertising and phone-calling.

Good luck. Give me a call if I can help

Tom Rasmussen
Odyssey Restorations

March 25, 1999

QUESTION: HYD. SHOCK OIL

WHAT WOULD BE THE PROPER FLUID TO PUT IN THESE HYDRAULIC SHOCKS. JACK OIL , LIGHT WGT SYNTHETIC OIL OR SOME THING ELSE.? I NEED TO OVERHAUL TWO OF MINE

ANSWER: HYD. SHOCK OIL
Dan -

I use hydraulic jack oil in the lever shocks on 1929 - 34. I have also used motorcycle fork oil because it is available in different weights and I could tailor the weight to the condition of the shock. If the valves were worn, a heavier fork oil could be used.

Motor oil is simply too heavy and is not suitable as a shock oil.

I'll ask a shock rebuilder what he uses and pass it on as well.

tom

April 1, 1999

ANSWER: HYD. SHOCK OIL

Regarding proper oil for hydraulic shock absorbers on the 1929 - 1934 Franklins:

I talked to Bob at Apple Hydraulics (an excellent shock absorber rebuilding company) about proper oils to use. He said that motor oil is strictly prohibited because the detergents will eat the shock absorber seals. He also expressed concern about corrosion due to oil acidity. I do not believe corrosion would be a problem, but the detergent definitely is.

Automatic transmission fluid is a more highly refined oil, but also contains high detergents which will destroy the seals in the shock absorbers.

The best oil is hydraulic oil available in small quantities at auto parts stores simply as Jack oil. Farm implement and equipment dealers will carry it in differing weights to allow some leeway. Be prepared to buy it in 5 gallon pails!

Motorcycle fork oil is also another excellent oil and available in different viscosities. Bob tells me that 20W should be good for shocks in good condition.

Bob also warned against overfilling shocks. If the seals are still in good shape and you fill the shock completely, with no air in the shock at all, then the heat from operation can blow out the seals as there is no room for expansion in the completely filled shock.

tom

APRIL 5, 1999

QUESTION:SETTING OF A SERIES 9 CARB

We own a 1921 Franklin touring car, Series 9-B. Engine number: E70334 Body number: 75252

This car was in the Harrah's collection, having been purchased from Robert Ragsdale, Lebanon, Oregon in April, 1967. It was then purchased at auction by a man in the Stockton, CA area in 1985, and parked in his barn since then. We bought the car early this year, and are in the process of going through it before starting it. I suspect that this is an early model since I have a Dynetco starter-generator, however it has a distributor and coil, rather than a vibrator.

Are overhaul manuals available for this model? If so, what is the price and how do I order one? Thanks in advance for all your help.

I want to set the float valve stem. I have a copy of a page from a
Franklin Manual. It says there is a different setting depending on whether you have an early or a late type of electric vaporizer. How do I tell which one I have?. The instruction gives a measurement of 5/8 " for early type and 11/32 (which has been changed to 11/16) for the late type. My vaporizer is currently disconnected. Since we live in California, I guess we really don't need it. We just sent in our dues as members of the Franklin Club. Looking forward to the membership.

ANSWER:SETTING OF A SERIES 9 CARB

Where is the vaporizer located on your carb? Is it mounted to the front side of the float bowl? One wire to the top and one to the bottom of a cylindrical appendage to the float chamber?

Do you have reason to assume the setting is currently incorrect? Have you already adjusted the nuts on the float valve stem?

The proper fuel level is 1/32" below the spray nozzles (main jet) on ALL Series 9 carbs. The most precise method for determining this is to remove the carb and measure accurately from the top of the carb flange to the top of the spray nozzles (through the carb throat). Then measure from the carb flange to the top of the float chamber surface. Subtract this from the first figure. Add to this 0.032" and you now have the distance from the top of the float chamber to 1/32" below the spray nozzles.

Run the engine, or turn on the supply from the vacuum tank long enough to fill the carb. Shut off the engine & close the supply valve. Remove the top of the float chamber and measure down to the fuel level.

Screwing the adjusting nuts down raises the level. Screwing them up lowers the level. The adjustment is very sensitive so only turn the nuts 1/16th of a turn at a time and re-test.

You'll need to remove a bit of fuel, or run the engine again to allow for a fresh filling of the bowl and thus an accurate test.

If the setting is likely close, you can simply run trial and error by raising the level a bit at a time until it is too high. It is too high when the carburetor drips with the gas on, mixture valve open and engine off. At this point, the fuel level is above the spray nozzles and you know you can lower it 1/32".

What body style is your car and what condition is it in?

Please join the Club as it will go a long way towards maximizing your fun out of this car! The Series 9's are a marvelously complete machine. I don't know that any other Franklin model achieved the level of balance & perfection that the Series 9 did in terms of adherence to Franklin's philosophy of scientifically engineered cars designed to meet the needs of the operator at the utmost in efficiency while at the same time delivering sumptuous luxury. They are wonderful drivers and tour cars.

good luck.

Tom Rasmussen

Here is the way you can get answers to your questions. We have listed below some of the back and forth questions an answers about the above 1921 carb problems.

Where is the vaporizer located on your carb? Is it mounted to the front side of the float bowl? One wire to the top and one to the bottom of a cylindrical appendage to the float chamber?

Vaporizer is located on the left side of the carb, about 3 " below the manifold flange in an almost flat horizontal position. The reason we got into this in the first place was we had a flood of gas shortly after opening the valve on the vacuum tank, which we had filled with approx. one pint of fuel.

This indicated that the float valve was not seating properly. I remove the cover and gained access to the metering valve. The metering valve was pointed at an approx. 10 degree angle and contained a number of gouges and was incapable of seating. I cleaned up the gouges maintaining the same angle that was there. (I am not sure that this tapered point to the metering rod is the correct shape.)

This led to the original question of where to set it. I think we now have it set correctly (Pretty close anyhow),

The car now starts, but does not continue to run. So now the latest
challenge - The latest theory is that the pointed needle metering rod is not shaped correctly, and so sticks not allowing any fuel to enter the carb. Do to the inclement weather, we have not had a chance to check this theory yet. Also we have not removed the seat and strainer from the bottom of the carb since it looks like it was put in with prematex. Tried using a small breaker bar, but don't want to break the casting. The reason for this theory is that when the car stops running after only a short time, the carb bowl is very low.

I would appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for this tip. It seemed to work OK. The current measurement seems to coincide with numbers from a friend's manual.

What body style is your car and what condition is it in?

We have a 1921 9-B touring. Condition seems to be original (fair). This car came from the Harrah's collection in 1985. The guy who bought it just parked it in his barn since then. We bought it a few months ago and hope to get it running.

Please join the Club as it will go a long way towards maximizing your fun out of this car!

We have sent in our dues.

Dear Evert,

The seat in the bottom of the carb is die-cast and likely has taken quite a 'set' in the bottom of the carb. It is wise to leave it in place as removal usually results in breakage. If it is brass or bronze, then it was machined new, likely by Harrah's.

It's not usually necessary to remove this unless there is an obstruction below it that cleaning solvent or other means will not remove.

A sticky needle could be the result of sticky motion in any or all of the three float 'fingers' . These also were die-cast and frequently need replacement. They should be made of aluminum as I have seen bronze replacements that did not function properly because they were too heavy.

I don't know the proper angle of the needle off the top of my head, but it needs to be smooth, if nothing else. If the face on the needle is gouged, it's likely the seat is gouged as well and may need attention. This would not likely lead to starving of fuel though.

You probably need to check for fuel flow by removing the float and needle and turning on the gas supply. The bowl should fill within just a few seconds. If you have excellent fuel flow, but the engine still dies and leaves a low bowl, then guess you'll need to look for a problem with the float mechanism or level.

Anyway, sounds like a nice car. Let me know what you find.

sincerely,

Tom Rasmussen

April 12, 1999

QUESTION: MAIN BEARING, RODS ETC

Will accept advice from anyone... I need main bearing inserts and a connecting rod for my '34 Olympic. I also need crank shaft re-grinding specifications. HELP HELP HELP! THANKS!

ANSWER: MAIN BEARING, RODS ETC

Dear Glenn,

Is the Olympic an 18-B or 18-C? Does it have aluminum connecting rods or steel?

If they are aluminum, what is the Forging number forged into the beam of the rod? Do you need a rod to replace a broken one?

If you have aluminum rods, the current fix is to re-machine the rod bore to accept an insert bearing from a Toyota Land Cruiser - part #CB 1219 in Sealed Power, Federal Mogul, Clevite...

The steel rods take a different insert, I don't remember off-hand which one.

Main bearings are steel-backed shells, babbitted and line-bored in the block. If the crank is worn, the main bearing journals should be ground to clean only. This is where the crank grinder starts with the worst journal and grinds it until it just comes clean. Then all other journals are ground to match. The least amount of material is removed this way. The inserts re-babbitted and the case align-bored. After re-balancing the crank, all is new.

If the crank and bearings are good, but you have one bad insert, you can sometimes find just one insert - used, I've got some. Or you can babbitt just the one insert and machine it separately, then you can hand-fit. It is not wise to machine all inserts separately then hand fit, align-boring is the way to go.

For the rod journals, you should decide first what you want to do with the rods. If you wish to go the Toyota route, then the rods should be machined, inserts fitted, then the crank ground.

You can e-mail me directly for more help, or feel free to call me at the shop.

Good Luck!
Tom Rasmussen
Odyssey Restorations, Inc.
612-786-1518

April 13, 1999

QUESTION: 1934 OLYMPIC POINTS

We are making a little progress. I think I now have a problem with points.What setting do we use? .015? (Those are sure different points.)

The car runs - very rough. #2 & #4 fire intermittantly. Double checking the points, might need new terminal ends on those wires. What do you think?

ANSWER: 1934 OLYMPIC POINTS

Dear Evert,

Glad to hear you got it going, anyway.

If you have the original open circuit Atwater Kent Unisparker (The "clicking points"), then the gap should be 0.010". The adjustment is by removing the fixed contact screw and removing one of the thin shims under the screw head to bring the contact closer to the sprung contact.

This has got to be one of the most beautifully constructed ignition systems ever put on a car. It was extremely expensive in its day. The problem with it is wear and tear and the difficulty in obtaining parts. The trigger slots in the distributor shaft wear so that a sharp trigger action is difficult to obtain. Sometimes the little spring breaks - another hard item to find. If it all works though, take care of it as it's a very reliable instrument.

Note that the breaker plate is held to the distributor body with three special shoulder screws. When tightened, the breaker plate is allowed some slight movement. This is critical. Many times these plates have been tightened down - they must float freely.

Timing should be 1 1/2" advanced on the flywheel. Crank by hand until the Distributor triggers, then note setting.

The ignition coil is the other weak spot on these. I have always had to re-wind the coil windings and replace the condenser inside these boxes.

If you have a weak coil, you might try lessening the gap on the spark plugs. Proper gap is 0.032" according to the manual. Try cleaning them and setting them tighter, such as 0.025 - 0.028". If the coil is weak, it might run better at low loads with the tighter gap.

Of course, the wires and ends are important too. I suppose you could try to replace them on just # 2 and #4 to see if it improves.

Let me know how it goes.

Tom

April 22, 1999

QUESTION: CLUTCH WON'T RELEASE

Hi Tom,

Well, we ARE making progress! It now runs pretty good. Next problem - the clutch won't release. We broke it loose once, but it won't stay. How do you adjust it? It seems to be the late model with a dry clutch. There are two bolts and slots. How should they be set?

Thanks for all the good information so far.

ANSWER: CLUTCH WON'T RELEASE

Evert -

Loosen the two adjusting bolts - the ones in the slots.

depress the clutch pedal

grasp the bolt heads and rotate clockwise (viewed from the rear) to take up for wear. It does not take much.

tighten bolts. Make sure there is free-play in the pedal.

If the clutch will not release, it may be adjusted too tight (Turn counterclockwise) or it may be sticking from lack of use.

By the way, I am in the Minneapolis area. Let me know if you're ever out this way.

Tom

May 17, 1999

QUESTION: Series 3 performance

Took the series 3 to Florida for an around town type of tour in Mt Dora. Carran awful. 90 degree day, it sputtered and spat. At a gas station it refused to start even after a reasonable cool down until we pushed it. Remembered your suggestion to close the metering control as a part of shutting the engine down and that helped. It would always start after that. It was the first outing for the redone mag by Jack Hurt. Don't know if it was breaking down with heat or if the problems were all fuel. On small hills (20' vertical) the car would steadily lose power, popping back. Richening the mixture helped the popping but made performance worse. I have the ability to advance and retard the spark via a choke control cable (the mag is a correct DU6 but obviously not Franklin). Didn't seem to help. Put a gallon of diesel fuel in it on a near full tank - didn't seem to help. I'm in the process of adapting a series 15 distributor to the car in an effort to pinpoint or eliminate the mag as the problem, but I'm sure I have a hot fuel system problem, too. The carb gets too hot to touch with your finger, but if you spit on your finger and put it on the carb it doesn't sizzle. The manifold yoke is the same, especially where it connects to the head. The pipe union-type connection from head to manifold really transfers the heat. I assume from the spit test the temperature to be about 140 to 240 degrees. I think to run the car in these warmer temperatures of this geographic area I need to make some changes in the system. My plan is to "update" the car much the way Franklin did, by changing the intake air path from around the exhaust and through the oil pan up to the carb path of series 3 to the series 4 & up tube from just above the air deck down to an elbow into the carb. To really accomplish this I need the later style oil pan without the air pass through casting. Do you agree the pans interchange? Can you think of anyone who might have one? (OK, do you think Jeff would sell or long-term loan one?) Looking at pictures of Jeff's car there appears to be a "jacket" of metal cover around the intake pipe from the carb to the yoke. Is that his addition of factory?

Your comments and input most appreciated, as always.
Tim

ANSWER: Series 3 performance

Tim

You've got all the classic problems - don't make the mistake of running right to the classic solution of butchering everything. The later oil pan will not interchange with the Ser 1-2-3. The engines are entirely different, share bore/stroke and carb, nothing else.

The first thing to do, and you probably have, is to eliminate the pesky valves as a contributor to the problem. Next time this happens, when it's good and damn hot, throw the car to the shoulder, yank the handbrake, kill the engine, jump out, toss the hood onto the soft grass
and check the clearance on valves for cyls 1,4,2. If they are out, not 0.012, or very close, then adjust them - QUICKLY. If you are extremely quick and have a trick valve adjusting tool with wrench & screwdriver knob in one, then you might be able to adjust all 6 at one time. Otherwise, after doing 3, drive HARD again and do the other 3.

I cannot emphasize how important this is to making these 1-2-3 cars run right. If the valves are not doing their thing, the engine makes more heat as you push it harder - it all ads up to fuel problems.

I assume the mag rebuild included a rewound armature and new condenser. If not, get the armature wound. New windings are the only way to stand up the heat under that deck.

Try different spark plugs - my car responded tremendously to different plugs - ran best on some HASTINGS NOS plugs with yellow insulators. As I got my fuel system cooled down, I was able to run regular Champions just fine. Try different heat ranges.

Does the car run well when cool? If not, better go over the ignition system again. Points, timing, advance, etc..

Now - the fuel system. You're right in your diagnosis of the heat problems. A different air intake would help, but I did not find it necessary. To determine if it is, infact entirely fuel related, go to your local small airfield and buy 5 gallons of 100LL (100 octane, Low Lead) fuel. Don't tell them you're going to put it in a car - they probably wont care, but the feds don't like to miss out on tax money. Drain the fuel tank entirely and put in the aviation fuel. If the car now runs perfectly - then you know it's a fuel problem.

The fuel heat problem can be licked without extensive modifications. It takes a multitude of small modifications to cool the carb down. Here are a few suggestions: First - make as thick a phenolic spacer as will go between the carb and oil pan mount flange to restrict heat. Next, install a heat shield between the carb and crankcase - where the carb touches the case. Some insulating fabric is all you can stuff in this tight spot. My car had an air scoop in the air deck above the carb (I'll tell you why another time). Harold Overdeck made a sheet metal box that slipped nicely over the carb and I ran a flexible hose, about 1 1/4" OD from the air deck scoop to the box resulting in a nice stream of cool air blowing on the carb. You can do a similar thing by utilizing the hole where the fuel line comes in - remember the air pressure is higher outside the belly pan - air will flow rapidly through any hole in the pan.

The fuel line gets hot and the fuel heats up on the way to the carb - insulate the line under the car, not along the underside of the fender - let it get cool air here - add some heat dissipating gizmo like clothespins.

Try these things first - then ask me for another great trick that the Ser 1-2-3 touring cars can use but the Victoria Phaetons cannot.

Let me know how it works.

av
tom

part 2 Series 3 performance

Read your e-mail numerous times. Until I have time to try some of your suggestions three quick responses. I am using Champ D-18 plugs. The bill from Jack Hurt Mags lists new condenser, points, and $275 to overhaul mag (plus various other charges). I am almost certain that included rewinding the armature. Third point. Not to question your wisdom and experience, only to be sure we are on the same page. The manual lists valve lash as .020 - .025". When I was checking the cam timing I noted that setting the valves (cold, of course) to .020" made the timing marks on the flywheel line up perfectly. It seemed logical that .020" hot would do the same. You suggested .012" red hot. Has any of the above made you waver in that setting?

Response: Series 3 performance

My car always ran best at 0.010 - 0.012" HOT. I don't have a problem with 0.020, but I think some experimentation is in order. Just remember - it must be HOT - even the factory recommended adjusting 3 cylinders, then running again and doing the next 3. That "Walking Beam" curls as it heats. #1 and 6 clearances go sky high, 3 and 4 get tight. We've been through this all before, but it's importance is one of the keys to proper performance in the 1-2-3's. If I was on a slow tour (25 - 30 mph) I would re-set my valves at this speed. This would result in far better slow-running and flexibility. I also ran hotter plugs. For fast touring (45 - 50mph) I would re-adjust and run cooler plugs. Seemed to work for my car.

Make sure the mag has a new armature.

The Avgas is the true test.

good luck

June 27, 1999

QUESTION: 1921 OVER HEATING

Hi Tom,

Just wanted to drop you a line to thank you for all the help you gave us on getting our 1921 Franklin touring running again after over 30 years!

We just got back from Westrek in Paso Robles where we put about 150 miles on the car with no problems.

Well, I shouldn't say NO problems. She still seems to run rather HOT! So hot she burned our legs. People seem to think that is normal for this model. Some say we can put some sort of oil pump and oil cooler on it? What do you think?

Can we somehow insulate the floorboards? Does that help?

Before we ran the car down there we had 8 ears listening to the engine - Bill Gewand, Chet and Maureen Zimmerman, and Neal Kissel. They all said to take her out on the tour, so away we went!

Thanks again for all your advice

Gus and Ev Young

ANSWER: 1921 OVER HEATING

Dear Evert -

Congratulations on the tour! Isn't it a great feeling to be out and about - touring after all these years and all the prep work?

I'm glad to hear the car ran well. As far as the heat, I'll try to offer a couple thoughts:

First off - does the car have the upper flywheel guard in place? This keeps all fan cooling discharge away from the floorboards and was sometimes discarded due to the difficulty in accessing the clutch & flywheel from above.

The exhaust pipe from the manifold should be well insulated where it passes through the firewall on the Series 9. I have seen this spot actually catch fire on Henry Gray's 9-B touring. It is supposed to have sheet steel insulating pieces protecting the wood but these are sometimes gone.

An oil cooler likely will not help as the heat you are experiencing is coming from the cooling air off the cylinder fins. Make certain the cooling system is working efficiently by checking for leaks in the air shroud system. One trick is to place a light in the engine compartment below the air deck. Close the hood and peer in from the front grill looking for leaks. The hood side panels should fit the air deck well. Also the engine splash pans and, of course, the flywheel shrouding.

If the engine is not in a good state of tune (I'm sure, after all the work, your must be tuned perfectly), it will work harder and run hotter. If it is worn, it will work harder and run hotter.

Anyway - you've got a few things you can check. At least your driving! Enjoy and good luck.

tom

July 1, 1999

QUESTION: Series 9 Frame

I have a 1917 Air-cooled Franklin. The frame is badly deteriorated over the front fender area where water has run down over the fenders onto the chassis.

I need prints or a source for a replacement chassis or a good used one. I would appreciate any help.

ANSWER: Series 9 Frame

This is a common problem area on Series 9's. If I can offer a few suggestions:

This area has been repaired successfully many times in the past. Perhaps the best method is to splice in another 3-piece laminated section of white ash into good wood behind the damaged area. Lap joints, good glue and screws will make a repair that is stronger than original if good materials and good joints are used.

I have also seen this area repaired with steel 'fishplates' and gussets. I am sure a secure repair can be made this way, but prefer the original wood method myself. Gene Kosche recently made such a repair on a Series 9 or 10 frame and reported his method at the Franklin Trek Technical sessions a couple years back. You might ask him how he went about it.

Before you attempt any repair, however, you should carefully examine the condition of the rest of the frame. If it has sagged appreciably, you might consider fabricating a new frame entirely. It's really not so difficult as long as you secure drawings from Jeff Hasslen and can find a lumberyard with a big enough press to glue the laminations together. After that, all you need to do is cut the frame out and put all the proper holes in the proper places.

Good Luck!

Tom Rasmussen

July 2, 1999

QUESTION: Watson Stabilators

I have another question for you if you don't mind.

On the Franklin Watson Stabilators, I do not have the webbing that attaches from the Stabilators to the axles. Any idea of where or who may sell this type of material?

ANSWER: Watson Stabilators

You can get shock absorber belting from:
Restoration Supply Company in Reno

775-825-5663
restoration@rsc.reno.nv.us

They have it in widths from 1 1/4" to 2".

They're a great company - you should get their catalog if you do much restoring.

tom

July 15, 1999

QUESTION: 11B CLUTCH RUBBER/CANVAS FILLER MATERIAL

I have recently purchased an 11B Sedan from a friend what has had it stored for about 23 years. The clutch was grabbing and acting up somewhat and it also had some bearing problems so while I have the motor down decided to look at the clutch too. The rubber/canvas filler material between the plate and the spline shank looks stranger, as if it has twisted somewhat. It is not torn but has a couple of bulges in it but all is still intact. I have replaced clutch lining before on another Franklin but was told that the shop could not replace the material in the middle. Is there some way to repair this? I have another plate that could be relined but hesitate to trust this material if I don't have to. I appreciate reading the fixes you folks come up with and really appreciate the help and the WebSite.
Thanks very much

Don Moore

ANSWER: 11B CLUTCH RUBBER/CANVAS FILLER MATERIAL

Don -

Contact Don Kitchin - he has repaired these clutch centers.

344 Beelzebub Rd
So. Windsor, CT 06074
860-644-1858

good luck
Tom Rasmussen

July 22, 1999

QUESTION: ALTERNATIVE TO GRAPHITE PAPER

Looking for a source or an alternative for graphite anti-squeak paper. Thank you.

ANSWER: ALTERNATIVE TO GRAPHITE PAPER

Felted paper works well - otherwise known as tar paper or roofing paper - get it at a lumberyard. I used to sprinkle graphite onto the paper - bought a can at a Napa store. I'm not sure the graphite is really needed and don't use it as much now.

tom

July 30, 1999

QUESTION: OIL PRESSURE 1912 T0 1929

Technical Editor:

That center section fix on my 11B clutch vita Don Kitchin works great and thanks to one and all for the help. Don is a real gentleman and was very prompt and gracious. Having put in new rod inserts I was curious about whether the motor was getting any oil so I put in a pressure guage attached to the oil filter(just disconnected the line to the filter and hooked the guage up on it) and it shows from 25 lbs. to about 80 lbs. I'm using 30 weight non-detergent oil .Is this suitable ? When the engine is on an idle it does about 15 pounds.

I have devised a fix for the Stewart Vacum tank using an aircraft needle and seat valve with an electric fuel pump that takes an expert to tell the difference from the original set up.The vacum tank working correctly is a good deal but get stopped in heavy traffic or in the middle of a bridge with a 73 year old fuel supplier gets hairy. About that time the purist may want to reconsider the vacum tank. If anyone is interested have them contact me.Thanks again for all your help. This is a great web site. Don Moore ,boattail@olympus.net

ANSWER: OIL PRESSURE 1912 T0 1929

Dear Don,

Your oil pressure readings are right on the money. The Franklin oil system from 1912 through 1929 is a pulse system. The full capacity of the pump is delivered through one lead at a time. To prevent too high a pressure, some oil is bled off adjacent leads as the pump rotates. Extremely high pressures can be found in each lead with cold oil. For this reason it is important to be certain the oil filter system has a by-pass valve built in. The by-pass is necessary to prevent too high a pressure building up in the lead feeding the filter or the filter canister itself.

Regarding the vacuum tank - I'm glad you devised a repair that works for you - it is a clever modification. I will add, however, that the vacuum tank is an extremely reliable system. Sometimes the bronze valve seats come loose from the die-cast cover - a little loctite cures this. Otherwise with a thorough cleaning, sealing & checking over - they are great devices. An electric pump is nice to have as a back-up as well.

Good luck & happy touring!

Tom Rasmussen

July 31, 1999

QUESTION: SERIES 12A VALVE GUIDES

Tom,
I am getting my 12A ready for the Trek and have a problem I need some advise with to fix. I rebuilt my engine about two years ago, Eggi valves, guides, pistons, etc. and it runs fine except when I go over 40 mph. I suspect I am getting valve float or a sticky valve. When I did the engine I had to use the original valve springs as I could not get new ones.( I now have new springs and probably should put them in.) When I put the engine together I installed spacers under the springs as required so each valve took about 33 # to open. I think I did this fairly accurately!

The symptom is: Car starts easily runs great until I push it to about 45 then suddenly I hear a clatter and a somewhat tinny noise and feel a loss in power. This seems to happen more when I back off on the accelerator at this speed ! As soon as the engine slows down and I am going about 35 the noise suddenly goes away and things are OK again. A few times I had to really slow don for the noise to go away.

The questions I have are: If a stuck valve will the valve loosen up quickly as I described ? If a floater or stuck valve any idea on how I can identify which valve it is so I don't have to pull all cylinders? The problem is never there at idle only at high speed.

Also, if I pull the cylinders I will check the fits again. I thought I had .0035 on exhaust and .002 on intake. However the bore on the exhaust is a straight bore not a stepped bore as I have seen on some Franklin drawings. Is it a benefit to relieve or undercut the center section of the exhaust valve guide? I guess this would leave a pocket for oil in the center of the guide! However it also reduces the bearing area for the stem. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks I want to do this work early next week. Hope to see you at the Trek

ANSWER: SERIES 12A VALVE GUIDES
Bob -

You've got classic sticking valves. The guide clearance is too tight for a downdraft. The exhausts need to be 0.0045" - 0.005", intakes about 0.003. I know this sounds like setting up a worn out engine, but that's the way it works! 33 lbs spring pressure is just a bit low, but is not light enough to cause the problem.

The most recent case identical to yours I can think of is Carl Barker's Series 12 about 5 years ago. With guides that are too tight, they'll all stick at the same time - and all free up about the same as well.

Be sure you use 100% synthetic oil on the stems and pads.

You should be able to ream the guides out fairly easily. The straight bore guides should also be fine.

Good luck.

tom

ANSWER: MORE ON THE SERIES 12A VALVE GUIDES

Dear Bob,

I've had a few more thoughts - and a bit more time -

Going over my notes - While I think 0.0035" exhaust guide clearance it too tight, I'm not certain I would expect such severe guide sticking. Perhaps they have 'necked down' and tightened a bit. I have heard of this happening on downdrafts with bronze guides. Perhaps they need a relief in the bottom of the guide.

I had the following problem in my 1931 153: New guides - experimental design, made from silicon bronze. I ran a vacuum gauge to monitor engine load and at steady vacuum around 10" valves would start to stick. I could always see it on the gauge before feeling it happen or hearing it. Slowing down freed up the valves after a few moments. I also found I could apply full load ( near 0 vacuum) and the valves would free - the extra heat in the head allowed enough guide clearance. As soon as I backed off, the valves would stick.

I thought it was only one or two valves and tried all sorts of measures to determine which one it was, including an electronic stethoscope with 6 inputs and a 6-way switch - nothing worked.

To solve the problem, I relieved about 3/8" of the bottom of the guide. This did the trick.

This is on a side-draft - which is a different animal, but the lessons are similar.

On downdrafts, I have run straight-bore guides with no relief without problems, but the clearance does need to be on the wide side. I am not sure what the factory called for as the drawing does not call out for final guide size after installing and reaming. Franklin did specify 0.005" - 0.008" stem to guide clearance for the Series 9. This gives you an idea how important extra clearance is.

The 'pocket' you describe in the Franklin guide was made by installing hardened bushings into the guide top and bottom, or one hardened sleeve from the top - giving a relief in the bottom. These were high-tech guides, which is why I like to use silicon bronze today. I have seen plain iron guides wear out fairly quickly, but for most collectors, they will last many years.

Lastly, I don't think you are likely to be experiencing valve float due to weak springs. Certainly, heavier springs may help, but heavier-than-stock springs are hard on the valvetrain. If the same problem happened in 1st and 2nd gears at the same rpm - that might indicate valve float due to weak springs.

I'm kind of rambling on here - but I know how frustrating it can be to have to tear down again to fix a problem (believe me, I've got plenty of experience doing just that), so I'm thinking of anything I can that might help.

Good luck
Let me know what you find.

MORE ON THE SERIES 12A VALVE GUIDES

Tom

I pulled all cylinders and found all guides were .342", valve stems .340. I opened intakes to .343 and exhaust to .3445-.345. Three cylinders had sticky exhaust valves. Hard to move with springs off. One intake a little sticky. Hope this was the cause. Also installed new springs and set to 35 pounds.

Good news was the stainless steel valves I got from Egge showed absolutely no signs of wear, pitting, or anything at all. They look brand new after removing the carbon, etc. Also, very little piston skirt scuffing and none at all on a few. I hope to get it back and running by the weekend and will let you know if I see a difference. I must be a slow worker as it took me about 12 hours to pull all 6 jugs, ream guides, clean up parts, reseat valves, install and set springs and clean up rocker arms where they contact the valves( something I did not do the first time around) and put back together. I still have to put the manifolds, etc back on. This whole thing took about twice as long as I had
estimated.
Thanks again for guidance.

I pulled #1 cylinder last night and measured parts. Valve stem .340" valve guides .342" at the center where it is a press fit; .3435 at top unpressed section. Don't know if I am measuring carbon build up or if guide is in fact .342". I will pick up reamers tonight and ream out tomorrow. I will reamintake to .343 and exhaust to .345. I don't understand why they are the shape they are as I reamed them after they were pressed into cylinder. I have driven car about 2,000 miles since rebuild. Valve seats looked good on this cylinder, although there is a lot of carbon build up on intake. Exhaust actually looked better.

Car would also occasionally backfire through carburetor so I suspect you are right about the sticking valves.
Thanks for advise.

Bob -

I think you got it licked. Funny how the guides necked down like that. I've never seen it happen, but have heard a couple other similar complaints. I always final hone guides to size, but I really don't think that makes any difference.

Egge uses primarily Manley blanks for their stainless valves. With a badly incorrect rocker geometry, they will wear rapidly due to side loading, but otherwise, they're the best solution for Series 12 and later.

As far as time - 12 hours for that job is pretty darn good. Want a job?(!)

Let me know how it runs.

Tom

QUESTION: MORE THE 12-A VALVES

From: Bob Harrison, Bob
To: Tom Rasmussen

Finished putting everything together and took the 12A for a ride at 9:30 last night. No problems, no more valve hang up. Easily ran at 45mph and pushed car to about 55 still OK. If things stay this way I will be happy. Seems a little noisy so I will re check valve clearance and set to a tight .010" on intake and exhaust. Can I push the timing a little beyond the 3/4 " recommended setting without causing any problems ? I have it set at about 1" and would like to go a little further!

FYI
Another item I had to deal with in preparation to the Trek is: Last year the car would just quit after a long run. I could restart it only to have it quit again. Had to restart several times on one run; limped all the way back to Caz. I have replaced the fuel line all the way from the tank. Found a worn through area where it( fuel line) was rubbing on the frame. Don't know why it did not leak. The fuel bowl / filter would never fill up all the way and acted kind of strange. I found the selector valve at the tank was sucking air which is the same as having a hole in the gas line !? I made a new fitting to replace the selector valve at the tank, new pick up tube and now the fuel bowl fills up completely every time. Hope this was the problem. Also replaced the coil in case it was the coil opening up when hot. I don't know that much about all of these things so I frequently guess at a solution and try to listen to advise from others. I am keeping my fingers crossed on all of this.

See you in about 10 days.

ANSWER TO VALVES ON 12-A

Bob - Fantastic news! With your attention to detail and careful balancing of the valve springs, it should be a very smooth runner. A Ser. 12 engine, properly built will run all day at 55. Chape Condit once told me that the reason the throttle spring was so light on the Series 12 was that you were supposed to just lay your foot on the pedal and GO!

I put just under 20,000 miles on mine, stock gears, all over the interstates at pretty close to full throttle.

Regarding the fuel problem - the tank selector valve is notorious for leaking and sucking air. Usually an O-ring will seal the valve at the handle. Otherwise, they're badly cracked up and the best thing to do is buy a new one from John Hasslen. It sounds like you got that problem licked as well.

never found any advantage to advancing the ignition timing. I cannot feel an improvement and on the dynamometer, the side-draft engines in stock form show no gain with advanced timing, regardless of the fuel used. You cannot hurt anything by advancing the timing, but I think you'll find little gain.

As for myself, I am in a frantic state trying to figure out how to get to Cazenovia this year. I've got a number of conflicts and the airlines have changed some rules, the Trek ends a day early now.......... I'm working on it, but don't know when I'll be there.

tom

Sept. 1, 1999

QUESTION:FRICTION DISK ON A 1919

Tom, sorry to have missed you at the trek, but I got stuck and had to miss a great deal of it.

I'm wondering what you might think about the following: The friction disk in my '19 was badly cracked and scored so I managed to cob another from George Staley, and as we were chatting I wondered why, in rebuilding the piece, we could'nt mill it a bit, fill it with resin and rivet high grade (and softer) facings to the disk. I understand from Fort Wayne Clutch that this solution works much better than the original 3-piece "floating" system and they (Fort Wayne) tell me it also eliminates all chatter.

What you think?

Eck

ANSWER:FRICTION DISK ON A 1919

It works fine to rivet standard clutch lining to the center driven disc.
tom

August 3, 1999

QUESTION: SERIES 11B SHIMMY PROBLEM

Bertha (Bertha is Gordon's Franklin: ED)got us home from the TREK just fine, but I am now working on a
shimmy problem that has developed. One thing I am investigating is the
above which is on this car (S/11-B). Does anyone know anything about
them, lit, service bulletins, etc? It appears to depend on lubricated
metal to metal friction.
Thanks, Gordon Howard

Gordon -

I don't know a lot about the stabilizer, other than it was a fairly popular device. I'd be surprised if it was a metal-to-metal device, but I get surprised a lot. These things were always put on to solve a wear problem, or perhaps even a minor problem. While the devices work, I'm sure there was a good deal of mark-up in the product and installation.

If the shimmy just started, I would try to eliminate it. I've written before on the subject, I'll see if I can remember what I said!

Tire pressure is first
Tighten all steering rod ball joints.
Grease all joints
Tighten spring clips - spring to frame bolts & spring to axle bolts
Adjust spring pivot thrust nuts
Check steering gear adjustment
Balance wheels

Each one of these items can contribute to shimmy. Each one of these is fairly easy to check and will enhance the drivability even if it does not fix the shimmy.

I am amazed every time I balance a Franklin front wheel/tire how much difference it makes in the shimmy problem. Even an unnoticeable imbalance makes a big difference. Henry Gray taught me this.

Of course, if the king pins and spring pivots are so badly worn that the shimmy will not quit, then perhaps an anti-shimmy device can be of value. Can you insert friction discs? I've seen these in friction shocks. There hard fiber - like the fiber washers used in electrical connections & motors. I might know of a source if you want to find some.

Don't forget alignment - although it's not so likely that that just went out, unless you struck a particularly bad hole or curb.

Good Luck - let me know what you find.

tom

September 6, 1999

QUESTION: LOSS OF POWER

Dear Tom,

I participated in the HCCA one- and two-cylinder meet in Ohio this week. Yes, four cyl cars can participate if they are LTB eligible and are less than 20 HP (sounds like a rule made for Franklins). This was my shakedown for another try at LTB later this year. The area was very hilly, much more so than I have ever attempted before. My car completed runs of 55 and 36 miles with the only problem being a broken low tension wire at one of the timer terminals. That was an easy fix en route. But the last day we were there, I was unable to get up a very steep hill. Whether I would have made that earlier in the week, I don't know. But I did have the sense that the power was less that day.

When I got home, I found quite a bit of carbon on two of the plugs. I suspect this may have caused the lack of power. Despite the carbon, the plugs seemed to fire OK in the open air.

Is a carbon buildup a likely cause of a loss of power? It seems like it could be. If so, what is the likely cause of a carbon buildup, too rich a mixture or something else? Also, have you any advice on how far advanced the spark should be from top dead center when the engine is at maximum speed (which I understand is about 900 RPM for the '03 cross engine with atmospheric intake valves)?

Would welcome answers to these plus any other thoughts you may have.

Chuck Johnson

ANSWER: LOSS OF POWER
Chuck -

I've always asked if I could show up on one & two cylinder tours with a Franklin, if I pulled 2 spark plugs. They always said no - but I never had an '04. I like the ruling in your favor!

I'm glad the '03 made such a good showing. I'm not sure about the loss-of-power problem. Is it back to normal after cleaning/replacing the plugs? Which plugs were the fouled ones?

Certainly carbon fouling can reduce spark effectiveness and result in a loss of power.

You might want to check the manifold to cylinder connections for vacuum leaks. Another problem would be an intermittent spark, casused be that broken wire, or dirty timer, bad connections, weak coil etc. If you have not noticed this problem before on the same plugs, I would clean them well & check over the ignition, then run again. If it happens again, try swapping those plugs with the other two to determine if it's a plug problem. If it's the same 2 jugs, then look again at wiring, intake leaks and compression on all cyls. You can always try hotter plugs if you cannot find another solution.

More than likely, clean plugs and a clean timer & coil connections will solve the problem. Carry some spares and you should be fine.

I find the spark adjustment to be very sensitive on these. They respond dramatically to changes in timing. For this reason, I would run with as much spark as she'll take. If, at speed, you can advance the lever all the way and not feel the power drop off at max advance, try advancing the timer one tooth. You should be able to very easily feel the exact max position of the spark lever. Ron Andrews taught me about running the spark on the cross-engines. You pretty much need to continually adjust it with speed increases until you reach cruising speed. Again, you should be able to feel this.

As far as top speed - I do not have a tire rolling circumference measurement with me, but:

Richard Harry's '04 will top out at a maximum of 40 mph (on a very good day, maybe slightly downhill with a hint of a tailwind!).
Richard's car has a 4-1 sprocket ratio. Assuming the diameter is 28", This gives and engine speed of 1921 rpm at 40 mph.

To figure your engine rpm at a given speed use this formula:

X = (((S / 60) x 5280) / C) x R
where
X = engine RPM
S = given speed in mph,
C = measured rolling circumference of the rear tire in FEET
R = the sprocket ratio (rear end teeth / trans sprocket teeth)

Just for fun, (what else have you got to do before going to bed???) to calculate car speed for a given engine rpm:

S = (((X / R) x C) / 5280) x 60

You can play with this and see what different sprocket ratios can do for you. Jeff made some 10-tooth trans sprockets once. I don't think there is room for an 11 tooth.

good luck - I sure wish I could be over there with you. For me, the whole experience was so intense the first time around, that I'd love to have another go at it. I think I'd get much more out of it.

tom

Sept. 7, 1999

QUESTION: 1908 "G" MANY QUESTONS

Tom:
I fired the 08 Franklin "G" Touring today... the gas was old and smelly (probably was aboard the Mayflower) but it ran for 15-20 minutes off an on. The dash fuel mixture was a different story! 3 to 4 cranks open off of seat to stay running. I noticed that at fast idle speed when I opened either hinged engine side panel that the engine speed increased. Is this normal?

* Also explain the "hot air" tube that comes from carb to exhaust manifold. It appears to have a pipe (with a shutter) that "T"s off and rises a few inches above the engine shroud to possibly bring fresh air however it has/had a cap on it.
* I assume there is no Ignition spark (timing) control on the mag ??
* Briefly explain the "dual exhaust" set-up with the small pipe and manifold at the top of the cylinders and the regular exhaust located at the bottom of the cylinders.
* What was the correct tire design in 1908... smooth white, smooth black, or ribbed black or ??
* I guess in the morning I will pull the carb apart and make sure that everything is clean and "un-varnished". Anything I need to watch out for with this carb??
* What kind of compression (# s) should this engine have? Don't suspect there is a problem but would like to get a baseline.

Thanks for your help!!!
Brent
bterry@preferred.com

PS: Pulled the steering wheel and throttle control today to repolish the spider and throttle lever. Entire steering shaft came out of column. Thought no big deal... I'll just remove the steering wheel and re-install the steering shaft. Guess what -- shaft indexes in but won't drop down all the way. Lacks about 2 inches so I guess the steering box gets to come apart now. Oh the fun of a show car!!

ANSWER: 1908 "G" MANY QUESTONS

Brent -

The carb needs to take air from above the air deck - or it's running in a lower-than-atmospheric pressure area. There should be a valve under the air deck to choose between heated air from the manifold, or cool air. Remove the cap - it should have a simple brass screen with fairly large mesh - just enough to keep the rocks from getting in!

3 - 4 turns open is too much for the carb - look for plugged nozzle, vacuum leaks. Carb disassembly is simple. The main jet has 4 branches - you'll see when you remove it. These need to be clear.

The Model G is a fixed-spark system - no advance was offered.

The auxiliary exhaust ports at the bottom of the cylinder ran through a manifold, into the muffler. The top valves ran through that extra pipe, past the muffler. The top valves emitted very little noise, since the lower valve opens before the top - therefore the top valves were not muffled. I'm really not sure why they did not just join them both before the muffler for simplicity. They might have been trying to cut down on the amount of oil going into the muffler.

In 1908, all tires were smooth, natural rubber. All white is the choice these days for those who show. Michelin has a light gray tire - which looks very similar to an original tire. They are expensive - $350 + each. Neither Michelin, or all-white tires wear very well.

I'm not sure about the compression figures. If there is not much cylinder leakage - then you're likely up to spec. Pistons cannot be raised easily on these or else the aux. ex. port will not open at bottom dead center. I have installed 'wedge top' pistons in these for a bit of a boost.

Sounds like you're havin' fun!!!

tom

September 8, 1999

QUESTION: 1933 OLYMPIC ENGINE PROBLEMS

Hello:
I am a new Franklin Owner having acquired a 1933 olympic at a recent auction.

The car seems to drive well but I have two problems with the engine. (Joy of buying a car at auction!)

First, Oil is getting into the airflow over the cooling fins causing a blue haze to envelope the car, making it virtually unusable.

I suspect the valve covers and have already made some new gaskets for them. however the oil is heavy at the front end and so I suspect the front oil seal.

Using my Labor Day holiday I have removed the blower and shroud and find that the surface of the blower hub is quite worn. Has anyone found a suitable sleeve similar to those offered for use on moder harmonic balancers? (to provide a new surface for the oil seal to set on).

Also, one of the push rods is very loose with side to side travel causing a lot of valve train noise. Is it necessary to pull the head to get to the push rod tube? Are there replaceable bushings used in the tube to keep the push rod in alignment?

My Olympic came from a private museum in Corpus Christi Texas. Its not perfect but is a very presentable driver. I have already received favorable comments from passing motorists who I am sure have never seen such a car.

A quieter and less smokey car will surely make a better impression!

Thanks
Chip Uren
Spring Texas

ANSWER: 1933 OLYMPIC ENGINE PROBLEMS

Chip -

Congratulations on being a new Franklin owner!

The best repair for a front main seal leak is to remove the timing cover and bore the acme thread seal out for a modern lip seal. Use a Chicago Rawhide seal, part #23632. Bore the housing for a light press fit on the seal.

Ask your seal supplier for the appropriate speedi-sleeve for that seal number and he can supply one. This will repair the fan hub. Or you can find a harmonic balancer seal hub repair sleeve for a 454 Chevrolet - available at your local auto parts store.

As far as the pushrods - the valve cage assembly is removed as a unit by removing the pushrod tube clamp at the crankcase, then removing the tall hex nut adjacent to the exhaust rocker arm followed by the 2 hex nuts holding the valve cage to the cylinder head. Lift the assembly straight up being careful to keep the lifters and lifter guides in place as you raise the assembly off the crankcase & head. You will need to 'spring' the pushrod tubes apart slightly to get past the exhaust manifold.

The tubes had hardened steel bushings inside to guide the pushrods. I suppose you could replace these with bronze. Or you can convert the entire system over to a tubular pushrod system which eliminates the bushings entirely.

If you know which pushrod is giving the trouble, remove the rocker arm for that one pushrod and withdraw the rod for examination.

Good Luck!

Tom Rasmussen

December 10, 1999

QUESTION: 1932 TIRES

Tom,
Hate to be a pest but I have another simple question, this one on tires.

The car has old cracked custom classic's 650-19's on it now. I can replace them with new custom classics as I can still get them. However, my wife who helps support this hobby, wants me to put white walls on the car. I know that is not original. I can't get custom classics in white wall. I can get a firestone, and did buy one to see what it would look like on the car. This tire is about 1" smaller in diameter and 1/2" narrower in tread with. I don't like these characteristics. Firestone also makes a 700-19 which is the same dia. as the custom classic but about 1" wider. It also has a wider whitewall section that may look better. Any problems going to a 700-19 tire on that car ? I'm not crazy about the tread design ( looks) but it may be ok. I hear Lester are not a good tire in general.
Any thoughts ?

ANSWER: 1932 TIRES

Bob -

Sorry for getting a bit behind on my e-mail. Regarding tires, I agree with pretty much everything you say, except that I have not necessarily heard bad things about Lester tires. The tread is not at all authentic, but they run quiet & smooth.

I have also been thinking about the 700-20 for my own Series 153 sedan, for pretty much the same reasons. I had been looking at the Lester 700-19, which is about 3/4 inch taller and 1/4" wider tread than the 650-19 Lester. Goodrich & Firestone in 650-19 are both 31.25" dia, smaller than the Lester. Whitewall on the Firestone 700-19 is 4 1/4" wide, a bit less than the Lester. I personally like the narrower white wall as is available on the Firestone.

However - with the 700 tire, I would not expect the tires to fit the fender well properly. This is not a problem for rear-mounted spares.

It is worth noting that the Series 153 and Series 16 fenders were originally designed for the original V/12 project, which was to use 700-19 tires. I think the 700's look better in the wheel opening on a big sedan. Mario Cuniberti of Columbus, Ohio put 700-19's on his 1932 Convertible Coupe. I like the way the car sits, but have not spoken to him concerning his findings. I'll likely call him soon as I need to order new tires for mine in the coming months.

Another choice is Michelin 650-19. This is a good looking tire and likely will wear very well. Price is $224 each - ouch! No whitewall available.

Also note - Custom Classics wear rapidly - I have gotten approx. 12,000 miles per set. I had some Lesters on a 1928 and put about 20,000 miles on those with minimal wear. I cannot comment on Firestone wear.

I also struggle with the white-wall issue. One in a thousand Franklin's may have had them originally, it's just not period correct. My car is black on black and I would like a narrow whitewall. I may just go all black, but the Lester also has a very plain sidewall. Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll keep the tires black & paint the wheels red to match the body stripe???

Let me know if you find out more.

Good luck - I'll send another note soon regarding the wood in the '32.\

Tom Rasmussen

Decembe 10, 1999

QUESTION: 1932 CARB AND VENTURI

Tom, this car is full of surprises and I seem to have a morbid curiosity trait that keeps getting me into trouble.

I have taken this car that was restored ( ?) to the satisfaction to the previous owner and slowly destroyed my chances of ever driving it this year. It is full of surprises. Someday I will write down all the good, bad, and the ugly.

Latest dilemma is the carburetor. The venturi looks like a pot metal one and although basically in tact it has begun to break apart at the top[ and has swollen somewhat. It seems to have cracked the side wall of the float chamber.
Question: Does anyone make replacement venturies ? Or have prints of one ? I may just put everything back together but really want to fix it.

The wiring does not look great so I am replacing all of that. RI wiring has made up the harness I will go pick up tomorrow.

The floor immediately beneath the rear body wall where it meets the rear seat base support is completely rotted out. This is a club sedan with a steel platform for the trunk, spare tire in the back. Looks like water collected there and eventually rotted everything out. Looks like a big job to replace. I pulled one rear fender hoping I could simply get at the wood but no luck, it is really buried behind, attached to, and underneath all kinds of parts.

And the guy I bought the car from just drove it without a care in the world. At times I wish I was the same.

By the way, although I put the original windshield back into the frame with a new seal, I was not happy because the glass did not fit very well and was just about into the frame/ seal in places so I had it replaced locally. Guy did a nice job and cut me a new piece of safety glass to replace the rear plate glass window.
>>

ANSWER: 1932 CARB AND VENTURI

Bob -

On the carb venturi - call Paul Fitzpatrick (607-674-9432)- he may have a new one left. I have made them but ran out. They are not to difficult to make, you can copy your old one - but talk to Paul first.

If the venturi is intact, you can simply polish it with sandpaper and leave it alone. Do not try to remove it unless you intend to replace it.

Every one of these carb is cracked between the venturi and the bowl. Sealing the bowl with gas tank sealer will give a good repair. You don't want to get into welding or brazing in a spot like that.

Rhode Island Wiring is a good outfit, I have used them for 10 years.

I cannot give any helpful secrets about the wood. We restored a '32 Club Sedan 8 years ago - all the lower rear tub wood, side body sills and deck wood was bad. Repair involved removing the deck cover and replacing all wood with white ash. This car also had bad wood in the upper longitudinals and windshield header. We ended up cutting the rear body section near the original welds and also the front header at the original welds. We then replaced all the upper wood and repaired bad metal along the upper door rails, welded all back together and away we went. This simple job only took a whole winter of dedicated work. There is no other way to deal with bad wood other than to ignore it. The problem with ignoring it is if the wood continues to deteriorate, then it loses it's ability to serve as patterns. Also, trapped moisture continues to oxidize the metal. Gotta stop that rust!

I would encourage you to investigate it a bit further and let me know what you find.

tom

December 18, 1999

QUESTION: Babbitt Rods

Tom ---

I am emailing you at the suggestion of two area Franklin owners, Mark Sullivan and Don Kitchin. I am looking for information on the process Franklin used to babbitt their rods. I understand from Don that they were centrifically cast with the rod spinning in a vertical plane. Is this correct? How fast did they spin? Was there a bonding agent or a special flux between the rods and the babbitt?

I live in Franklin, (where else?) Connecticut and work at Mystic Seaport as the chief engineer on the steamboat there and also as the museum's engine collection manager. I have poured babbitt for some time but I have never done it in aluminum. Some marine engines have aluminum rods. I would be nice to know how to do it.

Thank you. --- gk3

ANSWER: Babbitt Rods

George -

The trick to babbitting aluminum is in the tinning process. They are difficult to tin and frequently fail when the tinning is not complete. Nearly every failed bearing in an aluminum rod that I have seen has been attributable to a failed bond between the bearing & the rod.

When I do it, I take one connecting rod with me to the glass-bead cabinet and blast the babbitt surface (after melting out the old babbitt, straightening the rods & caps, repairing hardware, etc....).

Immediately after bead-blasting, I heat the rod with a torch and tin with scraps of babbitt. The babbitt will likely not 'take' and will roll away from the rod in spots. At this point I use a very clean stainless brush and brush the molten babbitt layer while still heating the rod. The trick is to scrape off the layer of oxidation with the stainless brush while it is covered with molten babbitt and not exposed to oxygen. If the rod gets too hot, it burns and the tin breaks away. Be sure to remember to tin the sides & edges of the rod.

Check the tinning by continuing to scrub with the brush while following with the flame to make sure there are no dirty spots that will not take.

Let it all cool, then grab another rod and do it again. One by one. Follow with the caps one by one. You must blast the surface immediately prior to the tinning to remove the oxidation layer which forms on aluminum almost instantaneously as it is exposed to oxygen.

As far as pouring the babbitt - I have been successful pouring by gravity. Spun babbitt is denser and certainly a better result, but one must send the rods to an outfit that does this. I have recently been converted to a full-time believer in spun babbitt, but have had 98% success with pouring. There are so many variables when pouring without sophisticated measuring & monitoring equipment, or vast experience, that I do not like to pour my own bearings. I'll likely spin (centrifugally cast) Franklin rods from now on.

Insert bearings are better yet and should be installed in 1928 & later Franklin rods.

I hope this helps.

Tom Rasmussen

January 16, 2000

QUESTION: SAVING ORIGINAL LEATHER

The front seat of my '21 Touring is shot (many tears) and needs to be replaced. However, the rear seat must have seen less use and is in much better shape; i.e., no tears but it is brittle and its surface is flaking ( perhaps a coating applied before my acquisition). I would like to keep the original leather in the rear if possible. I've tried using some "Lexol", per the suggestion of several members, but this didn't provide a noticeable improvement.

I sent for and received an informative brochure from "COLOR-PLUS" of Milford, PA, regarding their leather restoration system. This involves removing the leathers outer surface finish or coating with lacquer thinner and then applying their leather conditioner to soften and then finishing with a flexible surface colorant and sealer.

My problem can't be unique but I haven't seen any discussions along these lines. Any experience with "Color-Plus" or other approaches would be greatly appreciated. Likewise, any comments about forgetting the reconditioning of 80 year old leather and to bite the bullet and also reupholster the back seat would be appreciated.

Thanks for any help, past experience and thoughts.

Ken Dufrane (860) 675-9350 KHDuf@AOL.com

ANSWER: SAVING ORIGINAL LEATHER

Ken -

Dry, cracked leather can be rejuvenated. I have used a product called "Softener" by Surflex - they have advertised in Hemmings & such. I think the Color Plus system also will work well. Lexol takes longer to rejuvenate.

No matter which system you use, prepare yourself for a time commitment. It takes quite a bit of time to properly dehydrate(?) the leather with moisture and oils. Apply liberally and let soak in. Apply another coat when the first has soaked in completely. In cool weather, each step can take several or more days. In very war weather, the process is accelerated dramatically. A good, hot sun and 90 degree temperature is the quickest way - figure on a couple weeks.

If you wish to refinish the leather, stripping is a good idea and will make the rejuvenation process go quicker. I'm not sure it's advisable on the Franklin to strip & refinish as I think the leather was vat-dyed originally and not surface sprayed. I guess I would treat the leather without stripping and see how you like it.

If you give it enough time, you will feel great reward in having serviceable leather that is 100% factory original.

If you do replace the front seat leather, be certain you use short-grain cobra to match the original.

Good Luck -

Tom Rasmussen

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