Franklin

Answers and Questions Page #3

The H. H. Franklin Club publishes the information listed in FAQ's solely as a convenience to its members. No endorsement is made by the Club or Region, no claim or warranty is made as to the accuracy of any of this information. No responsibility is assumed for any transactions resulting form this information. Most technical questions are answered by members that work on Franklins every day.

Many technical questions have come to the WebMaster desk as will as questions directed to other members. In most cases we find the questions an answers to be of valuable help in finding parts replacement, oils, or just plain technical help.

In the weeks and months to come we will place the un-edited questions and answers here for your information and help. Should you have a question, please feel free to e-mail us with them. If we do not have the answer we will find some one that can help. You will receive your reply by e-mail as well as have it placed here for other members information. However, we will only list question an answers that are from Club members.

Thanks goes out to those members that have taken the time to reply to e-mail forward to them by this WebMaster. As always, the Franklin Spirit of helping one another is alive and well. Our Franklin hat is off the you, thanks. Starting June 17, 1998 we will list the name of the technical person answering the question.

OLDEST QUESTION AND ANSWER FIRST and NEWEST LAST

Page number 3, questions start in January 2000

Last Revised November 29, 2000

January 16, 2000

QUESTION: SAVING ORIGINAL LEATHER

The front seat of my '21 Touring is shot (many tears) and needs to be replaced. However, the rear seat must have seen less use and is in much better shape; i.e., no tears but it is brittle and its surface is flaking ( perhaps a coating applied before my acquisition). I would like to keep the original leather in the rear if possible. I've tried using some "Lexol", per the suggestion of several members, but this didn't provide a noticeable improvement.

I sent for and received an informative brochure from "COLOR-PLUS" of Milford, PA, regarding their leather restoration system. This involves removing the leathers outer surface finish or coating with lacquer thinner and then applying their leather conditioner to soften and then finishing with a flexible surface colorant and sealer.

My problem can't be unique but I haven't seen any discussions along these lines. Any experience with "Color-Plus" or other approaches would be greatly appreciated. Likewise, any comments about forgetting the reconditioning of 80 year old leather and to bite the bullet and also reupholster the back seat would be appreciated.

Thanks for any help, past experience and thoughts.

Ken Dufrane (860) 675-9350 KHDuf@AOL.com

ANSWER: SAVING ORIGINAL LEATHER

Ken -

Dry, cracked leather can be rejuvenated. I have used a product called "Softener" by Surflex - they have advertised in Hemmings & such. I think the Color Plus system also will work well. Lexol takes longer to rejuvenate.

No matter which system you use, prepare yourself for a time commitment. It takes quite a bit of time to properly dehydrate(?) the leather with moisture and oils. Apply liberally and let soak in. Apply another coat when the first has soaked in completely. In cool weather, each step can take several or more days. In very war weather, the process is accelerated dramatically. A good, hot sun and 90 degree temperature is the quickest way - figure on a couple weeks.

If you wish to refinish the leather, stripping is a good idea and will make the rejuvenation process go quicker. I'm not sure it's advisable on the Franklin to strip & refinish as I think the leather was vat-dyed originally and not surface sprayed. I guess I would treat the leather without stripping and see how you like it.

If you give it enough time, you will feel great reward in having serviceable leather that is 100% factory original.

If you do replace the front seat leather, be certain you use short-grain cobra to match the original.

Good Luck -

Tom Rasmussen

MORE ON: SAVING ORIGINAL LEATHER

Thanks for the recent and prompt input. My rational for first removing the leather's "surface coating" was based upon my initial try with the Lexol. When rubbing down a bit afterwards, I found that something was coming off of the surface that appeared to be like little flecks of black paint. Their size ranged from specks up to maybe 1/16 or even 1/8 inches across. My assumption was that someone, in the previous years, had applied some kind of a surface finish and that I should remove this and start from scratch. The "Color Plus" write up indicated that sometimes a surface finish could exist and it should be removed prior to the application of the softening material.

Does this seem correct to you?

I think it is very likely. However, I don't know if this is the way Franklin finished their leather, although I suspect it was. I would certainly experiment on an inconspicuous area.

Also thanks for the input on the type of leather to use for the front seats. I've just started to search for an upholsterer so I'll be sure to make this part of the requirement.

I also have to make up some missing sidewall panels (if that is what you call them!) that extend back under the dash from the firewall. Henry Gray was kind enough to send me a picture of his sidewall panels however, I couldn't see the detail of the leather. I'm assuming that these should match the seat leather. Correct??

All leather was the same in the car. Henry Gray's car has a nice, original interior and is a very good one to study. Good luck -

tom

Very best regards, Ken Dufrane >>

January 18, 2000

QUESTION: REMOVING REAR BRAKE DRUM

I need to pull the rear wood wheels to do a brake job. I removed the nut and washer I tried to put pressure on the rear side of wheel while at the same time striking an iron bar welded to a nut in which I made that was the same size as the axle threads. The wheel would not break free from the tapered shaft. Do you have a suggestion on how I can get the wheel off without destroying the wood spokes?

Thanks,
Steve

ANSWER: REMOVING REAR BRAKE DRUM

Steve -

The best way to remove the wheel is with a hub puller. This is a puller that screws onto the hubcap threads. Once in place, a center screw applies pressure to the axle shaft end. A few hard blows with a heavy hammer and it will come off.

If the wheel has been off recently, you can frequently remove it without a puller. The methods I have heard of are:

Using your iron bar welded to a nut tool - jack up the opposite tire, leave the wheel you're working on the ground. This channels the force of your hammer blows on the axle/hub joint. The trick here is to hit the axle hard enough without doing any damage to the axle stub or threads. I use a 5 pound hammer and hit as hard as I can and still maintain good control of the blows.

If you do not hit squarely, or if your nut does not work out properly and you damage the end of the axle, you've got a mess to repair. I've got some 'wheel knock-offs' which are designed to be struck after threading onto the axle shaft. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, sometimes the axle is damaged.

I've also heard of loosening the axle nut a quarter turn, installing the cotter and driving the car with the loosened nut. I've never known anyone who has done this and I cannot recommend the procedure, but I know I've read about it in the past. I usually find the hubs so tightly seated on the axle taper that I don't think driving would loosen them.

Resist the temptation to pry on the drum as it will do no good and may end up damaging the drum or backing plate. I have resorted to heat when I knew the part was to be repainted and the threads on the hub were in poor condition. In such a case the puller will not hold.

Far and away, a puller is the best method. I have had some made in various sizes. Send me the diameter of your hubcap thread. If I have a puller, I will send it out on a loan basis.

I hope this helps.

Tom Rasmussen

January 23, 2000

QUESTION: INSTALLING A 1930 ENGINE IN A SERIES 19

Hi, Keep up the good work on the website.
My name is John and I have a Ser 19 A Franklin sedan. The engine is getting quite tired, starting to knock at start up and taking longer to go away, and due for a rebuild. While the eng. is out the plans are to replace it temporarily with eng. ser # 149154, a 1930. I am pretty sure the engine will bolt in and up to the trans. Several questions though.
Can I swap in a tall dist. and housing to keep the heat off the dist. Will the later "improved" cooling fan and blower housing bolt on to the earlier eng. and is it worth the time and effort?
Any other problems that I should prepare for?
Thanks for your time
John Spisak
johnjs@transport.com

ANSWER: INSTALLING A 1930 ENGINE IN A SERIES 19

John -

You can install the tall distributor onto the Ser. 14 block. You can also install the later fan, but you will need to also install the later blower housing and venturi.

Due to a clutch change in late 1932, if you use the series 14 flywheel, you will have to use the ser. 14 clutch, bell housing with pedals and possibly transmission.

You could install the ser 19 flywheel onto the ser. 14 engine, thus allowing you to use all ser. 19 parts (clutch, bell housing, trans et.)
Doing this, however, may cause balance problems unless.

Have you considered rebuilding the ser. 19 engine instead of swapping?

I cannot think of any other problems right off.

Tom Rasmussen

January 23, 2000

QUESTION: CYLINDERS IN A 1913

Finally got around to taking off a jug on the '13. Pulled #1 as that was the easiest to get to. Cheated by not pulling the pan but just leaving the rod assembly attached. Seems to be .020 oversize. Cylinder measures 3.645 at the bottom, and 3.643/.644 at the top. Piston measures 3.635/.636 at the top and 3.641 at the lower skirt. Rings look pretty good. As you said there are two 1/8" rings in the top and 2nd groove, but a modern oil control in the bottom groove. It was pretty gummy. The bottom of the piston has two very shallow grooves about 1/4" wide and I'll guess .020 deep, the first is 3/16 from the bottom of the piston with 5/32 between them. Function unknown. When I put air pressure at the spark plug hole you could hear it coming out the oil input/breather, not the exhaust or carb. Compression was 15 lbs. I will have a peak at the valves while I can, but I'm not expecting to see anything major wrong there. I'm kind of at a loss to explain the compression being so low unless the rings are really tired and lost their spring strength?
Your thoughts, please,
Tim

ANSWER: CYLINDERS IN A 1913

Tim,

Wide rings, huh? I assume the pistons must be iron. What kind of ring end-gaps do you have?

If it was all pretty gummy, you might give the jug a freshen-up hone and fit new rings.

tom

January 26, 2000

QUESTION: BODY FRAME FIT 147 ROADSTER

I've got a perplexing problem regarding the body frame for my 147 roadster (Walker body) which I've been studying for several weeks and can't find a totally reasonable explanation.

As I've mentioned to you, my car was in very rough shape when I acquired it. It had been left outside in Idaho for several years in the 50's, then changed hands a number of times in the ensuing 30 years. The body frame was probably the most damaged portion of the car. One sill was missing, having rotted out; the other was 75% intact and most of the wood around and behind the hamper area was well rotted.

Fortunately, the pillars on the driver's side only required replacing the rotten bottoms with new wood and the wood behind the seat back was repairable. Too, the left side rails (which form the contour for the body and run from the seat back, along the hamper opening to the rear cross rail) were rough but clearly usable as patterns.

Here's the problem. Both the original rails and the replacements seem to be slightly too long-- by about 3/8"-- and therefore the aluminum won't fit over the frame. If I was dealing only with my new rails, I'd assume I'd erred and made them too long. But the originals are the same. As I said, I've studied this from every angle I can think of and have only one explanation. Is it possible that when the good people at Walker originally constructed these bodies, they forced these rails to bow slightly between the rear quarter pillars and the rear cross member when they attached them?

I believe that would solve the problem I'm facing, but I don't want to risk damaging the rails. Too, I'm not sure what benefit would be derived from bowing them, unless it was to act as a bit of a spring for the aluminum shell.

Well, any thoughts you may have on this would certainly help to clear the perplexing issue for me. Or it might muddy my thinking even more. In any event, I'd appreciate your insight.

Ed

ANSWER: BODY FRAME FIT 147 ROADSTER

Ed -

The rails would not have been 'bowed' to fit. The amount of force required to accomplish this and the resulting force against the aluminum coachwork would be significant.

I'm pretty confident in sticking my neck out and saying that you've got a problem here. You might contact a couple other 147 Roadster owners and try to get some measurements. With all that your car has been through, there have been opportunities for things to get a bit out-of-whack. Even if your rails were good for patterns, something must have changed to give the results you're seeing.

Interestingly, I have seen rear tubs that were not nailed to the body sub-frame at the tub bottom. Nail holes had been punched, but nails never installed. I have seen on at least one Walker-built sedan. The wood had fit perfectly, however, just had not been final nailed.

Let me know what you come up with.

tom

January 28, 2000

QUESTION: STILL MORE ON THE 1913 ENGINE

More ring gap info. Second compression ring gap about .040". Oil control is .059". It is one piece older style, not newer 3 piece as I originally thought. Intake manifold flange is flat. I had guessed beveled like pipe fittings. And there were no gaskets. No wonder my vacuum sucked. OK, OK, no wonder it didn't suck! As that flange mates with the head it gets pretty hot after a good run and subsequent shutdown. Would a paper based gasket hold up or should I use a copper o-ring style with asbestos center, like aircraft. Or maybe a round flat exhaust gasket, if one exists. 1 1/2" ID and 1 3/4" OD. What's the hole in the top of the head filled by a 1/8" brass pipe plug for? Pistons are cast Iron and as I said, .020 over. Does that help date the rebuild? How long has it been since you could get cast iron pistons? Synthetic oil is good stuff. I hadn't run the car in 6 months. When I lifted the cylinder off the

ANSWER: STILL MORE ON THE 1913 ENGINE

Tim -

Pretty nasty ring gaps, although I cannot swear that they're the sole cause for the low compression. What's the compression height of the pistons??

It's nice to find exciting things like no gasket on an intake manifold as it gives reason to believe you've 'found something.' Copper port gaskets are the slickest, try restoration supply company or Olsen's gaskets. You can use heavy gasket paper - 1/32".

The 1/8" pipe plugs are likely for primer cups. I have seen primer cups installed in the intake port, with these plugs in the jug as well. The jugs had plugs right up through Series 9-A. Do you have primer cups on yours?

With a memory like mine, I'm lucky I can recall my old '13 at all. I remember best the wind, the effortless shifting, effortless steering, the suspension that galloped over bumps (the shorter wheelbase was really kind of fun) and the wonderful rock-solid confidence I felt when driving a steady 50+ in the car. It really had a fantastic feel to it. Sometimes, late at night on a quiet road, I would stand right up with one hand on the windshield and my right hand on the steering wheel. It was quite comfortable, felt like running a boat. The bumps were fun- you really got a good feel for the workings of the suspension when you remove the seat springs from your senses. Anything over 40 mph got a bit nerve racking, but it was a great sensation.

Of course, I don't condone such practices. I suppose I'm lucky I didn't end up wrapped around a tree. I sure do miss that car.

As far as those exhaust gaskets, you needn't have reminded me of the dimensions. I remember well that it does not matter 'cause you're gonna have to hand cut new ones anyway! I thought the center port hole was not centered between the bolt holes - but perhaps I'm wrong. If you don't wish to cut new ones, send a sample out to Olsens Gaskets. There may be a stock flange gasket that will fit, but I cannot remember - I just remember how much fun it is to install that big manifold that never lines up quite right.

tom

January 29, 2000

QUESTION: 4500 MILE TOUR HOW SHOULD I READY MY FRANKLIN

I need some advice re my 1922 series 10 A. can you tell me what the modern replacements are for the spark plugs, condenser and universal joints. Also, will engine cooling be affected if engine splash pans are not installed.

The car is going on a 4500 mile cross Canada tour this summer and I am somewhat concerned about the vacuum tank. After the car sits for 3 or 4 days it looses vacuum. Any suggestions? Do you think I should consider installing an electric fuel pump to get across the Rocky Mountains? I would really prefer not to.

Any suggestions and advise would be greatly appreciated.

Jim Stevenson

ANSWER: 4500 MILE TOUR HOW SHOULD I READY MY FRANKLIN

Dear Jim,

For spark plugs, Champion W-18, or 518 is the proper plug. They are readily available.

Removing engine splash pans can actually help cool the engine. It seems that the extra airflow around the crankcase helps lower crankcase temperatures somewhat. On all Series 10-13 cars, removing the pans can also lower chances of vapor lock.

For a condenser, your choices are limited. Use a condenser from a mid-50's Chevrolet - cheap & plentiful. The capacitance is close enough to stock to work well with the Atwater Kent system.

Original U-joints are no longer available. There is a modern joint - a Spicer 1306 - 1X, or 1306X. This joint will fit the original Spicer cross, but the caps on the new joint will need to be turned or ground down about 0.010" The new joint uses snap rings to install to the yoke. You may need to true up the snap ring surface in your original yokes to center the joint as this surface was a thrust surface with the original system and is often worn unevenly.

Get it all apart & clean and call me if you need better explanation. If you cannot get the parts modified, I can do it for you.

As far as the vacuum tank - you say it loses vacuum. I assume you mean the fuel runs out so that when you try to start the car a few days later, the carb is empty - is this it? If so, the simplest solution is to install a fuel shutoff valve under the vacuum tank. This is a good safety device anyway. Shut off the fuel whenever you park the car.

Otherwise the vacuum tanks are really quite reliable units. They need to be clean - I usually have them sealed with a gas tank sealer. Gaskets need to be good & the little brass valve seats pressed into the diecast cover need to be firmly in place. Sometimes these seats fall out and the pump malfunctions - then the seats pop back into place causing a confusing intermittent problem.

Make sure there are no leaks in the lines from the fuel tank pickup to the vacuum tank inlet.

An electric pump is nice as a back-up, however, if you attempt to pull through a pulse pump with the vacuum tank, you will lower the efficiency of the system due to the resistance of the electric pump valves.

You can run a by-pass around en electric pump with a one-way check valve to eliminate the problem.

The electric pump cannot run continuously without modifying the vacuum tank, so use it only in emergencies. You can carry a spare line to plumb directly into the carb with the electric pump, if you wish.

In many years of long trips in Franklins, I've never had a vacuum tank problem, or mechanical fuel pump problem. I have had a great many problems with electric pumps, however - take that for what it's worth.

Good Luck -

Tom Rasmussen
612-786-1518 days

February 13, 2000

QUESTION: WELDING CAST IRON

Tom
How re things out west ?
Here in RI things are continuing to come apart. With the crossover pipe staring me in the face I felt compelled to remove it and clean it and apply some high temp paint. Well, it just is never that easy. I found a pin hole directly above the blower housing. The exhaust leak, caused by this hole, had burned off the paint on the housing. I tried to weld the hole and found there was a fairly large thin section around the leak. The hole got bigger. It is very difficult to weld 70 year old cast iron and I am not having a lot of luck. The part keeps cracking. It is hard to keep this big piece of cast iron hot. I have tried a few different rods, silver solder, bronze, etc. I even got caught by my wife yesterday with the part in the oven being heated to 400. She wanted to use the oven to cook dinner. I'll tell you some people just don't have their priorities in the right place. I have tried in vane to contact the Franklin Factory for I feel this is a defective part ( thin section) and should be covered by a warranty. This being the situation I am now on the hunt for a good crossover pipe. Any ideas ?

I am going to try again tomorrow. I have the pipe full of sand with the ends capped off. I will heat the whole mess to 400-500 then quickly weld then place the part in a box of lime so it will cool slowly. So far I have heard it crack as soon as I finish welding and the part starts to cool. I'm hoping the sand will help keep it hot.

ANSWER: WELDING CAST IRON

Bob -

You're right in your assessment as to the difficulty in welding cast iron. Conventional means just do not work satisfactorily.

There are 3 methods that I know of that have varying degrees of success.

The first, and simplest is to cold arc weld with nickel rod, chosen specifically to weld cast iron.

One must deeply vee out a crack, or enlarge a hole sufficiently to obtain 100% penetration with the weld. The old, experienced welder (Jorg Johnson) that taught me this, insisted on keeping the iron cold, to minimize heat distortion and cracking. A very small amount is welded, not more than 1/4" to 3/8" of bead. Immediately tap & rap on the bead with a hammer to stress relieve the weld. Continue tapping until the weld is cool to the touch, then proceed with another length of weld. It is important to keep the entire part cool. My old friend Jorg would constantly apply his thumb to the iron, if it hurt, he would wait for a bit before proceeding.

I have seen this technique work many times, especially on engine blocks, where heating the entire part is impossible. It is not, however the preferred method, as there are still tremendous stresses at the weld edge and future cracking is possible. In my experience, success on a manifold is 50%. If the area has had any other material, such as brass, or bronze, added, the nickel rod will not take at all.

The other methods rely on slow, even heating & cooling - as you have been attempting. Packing in lime, or sand does seem to help, but not necessarily enough.

Another method that has worked, on occasion, is to heat the part with a rosebud tip of an oxy-acetylene torch and tig weld with silicon bronze rod. We had another welder replace a 2x4" rectangular piece in a Franklin V/12 crossover using this technique. The important thing here is to heat the part as much as you can, gradually, complete the weld and then cool gradually with the rosebud. We use a tremendous amount of gas with this procedure, but it is something that can be done in a home shop with a torch. The part should also be bolted to a jig to minimize warpage.

The final method, and the only really proper way to repair cast iron, is to slowly heat the entire part to 1000 degrees in a furnace and fusion weld with iron rod, then cool slowly. By slowly, I mean, several hours to heat up and 6 - 8 hours to cool. Nearly the same success rate can be achieved by heating just a bit less and brazing the parts. The problem with brazing is the difference in coefficient of expansion between the dissimilar materials which could result in future failure. The brass is able to handle a fair amount of force, however. This is the preferred technique for major repairs to combustion chambers, water jackets and manifolds. I also repaired a crack in a 1913 Franklin cylinder with this method.

Having said all that, I really think the best option is to find another crossover pipe. They tended to hold up very well and I think there are quite a few floating around. I'm pretty certain an ad in the Club newsletter would turn one up for you.

Good Luck!

Tom

February 15, 2000

MORE ON WELDING CAST IRON

Well Tom, although we tried something close to one of your methods that seemed to work, I intend to follow your advise and get a replacement cross over pipe. We filled the pipe with very small metal chips and capped the ends off so the chips would not fall out. We heated the pipe in the furnace to 750 degrees F. Removed the pipe and wrapped in a heavy insulating blanket. We then quickly moved it to the weld shop where it was tig welded with silicone bronze while it was still wrapped in the blanket. We then placed it in a box of lime and kept it covered so it would cool slowly. We welded it at 10 AM and it was still very hot at 5PM. We let it sit overnight and continue to cool; it was actually quite warm at 8 the next morning. Although the weld looks OK and I don't see any cracks I am afraid it may crack at some future date so I will try to find a replacement. Thanks for the information which I will share with the weld shop here at work so they will have a number of options to consider the next time we have a part to weld made of cast iron.

Thanks again for the advise.

Nice job, Bob - congratulations. It sounds like you've got a good set-up available. You're always better off finding a better part, but I think you've likely done a good job saving a bad one.

tom

ANOTHER WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WELDING

I was waiting to read in your response to the difficulty of welding a cracked cast iron crossover pipe the low - tech approach to the problem. That's what happens when you reach that master craftsman status; you forget
how Bubba would do it. You get a bunch of bricks and place them in a safe area near the welder, pile charcoal on them (or coal), light it off, stick the pipe in and let it all get up to temp. Add a steady stream of air from the compressor if needed. Pull the pipe out just enough to keep from burning your fingers off, turn off the air, weld fast and put it back in the fire and add more coals. Come back tomorrow when it's all cooled down.
Your pal,
A distant acquaintance of Bubba

March 16, 2000

QUESTION: ASH WOOD SUBSTITUTE FOR FRAME

Hi, keep up the good work. Is there an acceptable substitute for ash wood for a Ser. 9 frame. Could a
3 layer of plywood work? or would it be too stiff. Has anyone experimented with other woods? Any help appreciated
John Spisak

ANSWER: ASH WOOD SUBSTITUTE FOR FRAME

I'm not qualified to give the answer you're looking for, John, but I can give you my thoughts.

I am guessing that you do not have a source for gluing up the laminated ash, hence your interest in another material that perhaps you can handle in the home shop. I believe plywood would be wholly unsatisfactory mainly because it has little strength when loaded on it's edge. This is what my wood guy tells me anyway. Once you glued a bunch of it up and drilled all the holes needed and cut it all to shape, you would have a piece not nearly as structurally sound as the laminated ash which has 3 layers. Like I said, I really don't know about it, but would not try it based on what I've heard.

Microlam (sp?) came up as a possibility. This is plywood, but with very thin laminations. I believe it is available in rather thick stock, up to 2". This may have more strength, maybe even enough to use as a frame rail, maybe even superior to the original.

My feeling is, however, that the laminated ash frame really does work very well. Some have sagged quite a bit, many have not. I have only made 2, one for a 1905 and one for a Series 11. It was a simple affair to have my local lumberyard cut & glue in their 18 foot press the required pieces as per the factory drawing layout. Then you just cut them out and transfer the holes. I though about pre-bowing the whole rail about 1/4" or so for the whole length, but decided not to. The Ser. 11 frame was made deeper than stock to match a factory bulletin and replacement part drawing for the 11.

I feel the ash frame is fairly straightforward to manufacture and results in a correctly performing chassis. But I certainly do not know much about the alternatives. Please share what you learn if you find some alternatives.

Good Luck!

Tom Rasmussen

March 20, 2000

QUESTION: PISTONS JUGS SER 3

Finally gave up and started pulling jugs & rod assemblies. Hoped to pull just the jugs but not pistons. Though not bad, the pistons still had a good bit of carbon in the ringlands and have to be cleaned. What I found:

Pistons have 8 holes drilled in the oil control ring groove (5/32" dia).
Pistons are 4 7/8" tall, wrist pin located exactly in the middle.
Horseless Age, Jan 10, 1912 described the pistons as 4 7/8" in length.
Bottom of the skirt comes to within 1/8" of the bottom of the cylinder, add the piston
height and the stroke (4") = 9". The wear pattern in the cylinder measures 9". Total distance of the inside of the cylinder from the bottom of the mounting flange to the valves is 10 5/8".
10 5/8" - 9" = 1 5/8" for the combustion chamber.
Using pi x (r x r) for area of a circle = 3 5/8" bore x 1/2 = 1.8125 x 1.8125 x 3.14 x 4" stroke + 1 5/8" (10 5/8 - 9) as total volume of piston travel + combustion chamber =58.02 cu in. The combustion chamber = 16.762 cu in. The ratio 58 divided by 16.78 = 3.46. I would think it should be at least 4 to 1. Am I figuring it right? Pistons have 3 1/4" ring grooves, 2 small grooves at the bottom of the skirt, one inch pin, and are .020 over ( 3.642") Valves are 1 5/8" diameter and have a groove for a keeper as well as a hole for a pin. The only literature I have says they should be the same as a model D at 1 15/16", but I don't believe that's correct. I don't think they would fit.

The point of all this in case you've forgotten is the compression is around 15 lbs. The ring gap was about .040 and the gaps were opposite in the correct manor. Should I glue a piece of aluminum to the top of the piston to get the compression up?
Really? OK, how thick?
Thanks for the help,
Tim

ANSWER: PISTONS JUGS SER 3

Dear Tim,

I do not have one of my original Ser. 3 pistons handy, but I don't think I need to dig them out, it sounds like your numbers are correct.

I had some pistons made for mine which had a compression height of 2.5625" I used a Chrysler Imperial mold. This lowered the chamber volume to 15.48 cubic inches and raised compression ratio to 3.75 - 1

There is now a casting available which is 2.625 high, chamber volume of 14.8 cubic inches and a compression ratio of 3.92 - 1

I recently saw another casting with a 2.6875 compression height which would give a 14.2 chamber volume and a 4.1 - 1 compression ratio. It has a 1.109 wrist pin which would not work on the Franklin rods. One could bush the piston or I could likely get new castings and have them bored for the 1.000 pin.

I'll have to find my compression ratio to gauge pressure reading chart. Until then, I can assure you that 15 lbs compression pressure is seriously low and that you have a severe leakage problem.

The 2.5625 piston gave me a car with good performance. I always felt it was pretty close to the factory performance as what is gained with the extra compression ratio is likely lost due to increased internal loads imposed by the cam ground aluminum pistons. I don't know if I'm right about this, but always felt it was so.

By good performance I mean an easy cruise of 48 mph, top speed close to 60. (Electronic speedometer verified)

It would be a fairly simple matter to get more power by simply using taller & taller pistons. There are two major problems with this, however.

The first problem has to do with increased height and weight of a piston above the wrist pin. The extra height and weight make it difficult to keep the piston from rocking and slamming the head into the cylinder wall without making noise. One can machine inside the head of the piston to lower the weight -- we've done this on the sidedraft engines, but you still have to be sure there is enough stability below the pin to keep the lower skirt from taking too much load and cracking or breaking.

The next problem, and the one that limited my own tests, has to do with the scarcity of spare cylinders for these cars. In the years that I owned my Ser. 3, I searched constantly and only turned up one single spare cylinder, which I needed as I had a cracked one.

I do not know how much extra heat we can pump into the heads of these early cylinders without suffering cracking failures. With no spares readily available, I decided it was not a gamble I was willing to take. I did repair the side crack in my cylinder which involved machining one fin off and welding the crack. I machined a groove and installed another fin, but never did test the cylinder.

Of course making new cylinders is not out of the question, but it would require many thousands of dollars to get underway and this was something I was not willing to bankroll, especially with the limited market.

Anyway, I think you should check the valves very carefully. As far as the pistons -- are they original iron? At 0.020" oversize, are they factory replacements? I have seen some beautifully lightweight iron pistons come out of these engines. If they're in great shape, how are the cylinders? Less than a few thousandths taper and another few thousandth clearance and you could rebuild the pistons. It requires restoring ring grooves, machining for modern ring depth, fitting rings with proper gaps and honing the cylinder to give the rings a chance to seat.

I'll look for my compression pressure chart and see what it comes up with for a 3.5 to 1 cylinder.

I've still not found the wiring diagram I once saw -- but have not given up hope.

tom

March 20, 2000

QUESTION: LONG DISTANCE TOUR 1922 FRANKLIN

Dear Tom,
1922 Franklin 10a
The preparation of the Franklin for a long distance tour [4500 miles] this summer is continuing albeit very slowly. I would appreciate any suggestions you might offer for the following problems:

The car is equipped with an Alemite Gas Co. later Model S gas filter. The glass sediment bowl is cracked although it does not leak. I have not been able to locate a replacement bowl at any of the local auto parts dealers. The bowl is 2 3/4 inches high and has an outside diameter of 2 5/8 and an inside diameter of 2 inches. Next, I have found that two of the demountable rim clamp bolts are three inches long. Do you know of a supplier for these parts?

The car has a Stromberg OE-1 carburetor. When I adjust the high and low speed idle using the factory specifications, there is very little difference. I used too get more of a reaction when using the adjustment screws but now it doesn't seem to matter what the setting is, especially on at speed. I think I should have the carburetor re-built. Any suggestions on a good carb rebuilder?

lastly, I must be going senile, because I can't figure out how to lock the car. It is a closed car and it has a key lock on the passenger door. So far so good. The driver door has no key lock but is equipped with the door locking devise illustrated in the parts book.. There is a door locking device knob, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Do you know how it works? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Your truly
Jim Stevenson

ANSWER: LONG DISTANCE TOUR 1922 FRANKLIN

Dear Jim,

I don't think I can help on the glass bowl, but will take a look. I've got a drawer full, but they're all from AC fuel pumps, I think. Where is this mounted? Is it right on top of the vacuum tank, or inline somewhere?

Rim clamp bolts are tough as well. I've got a few from a Series 12, no others. It's a good idea to look for these at swap meets and gather up some spares. Same for the washers. You frequently find these in jars, or cigar boxes with misc. hardware in them at meets, although it's getting harder these days to find them. I am do not know of a vendor who might have a stash of these, although I am certainthere are many out there.

On the carb, I would suggest giving it a good cleaning yourself before sending it off to a rebuilder. The OE-1 is a fairly simple carb to work on as there are very few parts and no fragile die-cast to worry about. Take it off the car, remove the float & valve and give it a good cleaning.

You should be able to set the low speed screw to about 1 1/2 turns out and the high speed to about 20 clicks, then warm up the engine and set the high speed with the hand throttle set to give an engine speed of about 25 mph, or so. If screwing the high speed all the way in has no effect, then you do have a problem. Otherwise, you should be able to get a reasonable adjustment, then fine tune the idle screw. The idle screw is an air bleed adjustment, which means it adjusts airflow, not fuel flow. Screwing it in richens the mixture, backing it our leans the mixture. It is not uncommon to find you can screw it all the way in, or all the way out and the engine still runs nicely. At this point, one must check float level, high speed adjustment, possible manifold vacuum leaks. Give it a good cleaning first, then try the adjustments again.

On the door locks, I do not know for certain on a 10A, but a 9B late has an internal slide knob that moves up or down just a bit to lock the latch mechanism. It's a nickel plated cast knob that protrudes from the door panel upholstery and acts directly on the latch mechanism. This can be unlocked by using a key from the outside, or by using the knob from the inside.

Perhaps another Ser. 10 owner will see this as it is posted on the website and respond.

It sounds like you're making good progress on the car -- keep it up, I'm sure you'll have a very memorable trip!

Tom Rasmussen

March 21, 2000

QUESTION: WHAT SPARK PLUGS USED ON A 12A

Frank,

Can this question be forwarded to Tom Rasmussen, I have a 1928 12A and am trying to locate what spark plugs can be used for my automobile, the ones currently in the car are illegible, and i am not sure what the car takes.

thank you for your time,

glenn blaze

ANSWER: WHAT SPARK PLUGS USED ON A 12A

Dear Glenn,

The 1928 12A has a 7/8" thread and uses a Champion W18. The numbers recently changed and I think the new number is 518, but you should ask for the W18 first.

Franklin switched to an 18mm threaded plug for the 12B. This uses a champion D16, or current number is 516. I have seen a couple 12-A's with Series 130 cylinders, so make certain yours has the original large plug in it.

Most good-sized auto parts stores stock the plugs. If they don't have them in stock, they can surely order them.

tom

April 1, 2000

QUESTION: SERIES 11 BRAKES

While working on a project to eliminate service brake chatter, I've realized that the brake lining is worn pretty thin. Since everything is apart, I want to get the brakes set up, too.

I've got a length of 3/16" asbestos lining the correct width and length.

Is lining the brake band something that I should leave to an experienced individual? I mean, I don't want to mess this up because asbestos brake lining is as scarce as a '31 Merrimac Sport Phaeton. I don't think I have a tool to insert the rivets anyway --- or at least, not the right tool. I don't think pounding them over by hand is very good, right?

From my Model T days, I remember that you were not supposed to line the bands starting at one end and working to the other. If you did, it always seemed as though you were given too much and had to cut it off. What you did was rivet BOTH ends with the length provided, which seemed about ¾ inch too long. Then you worked the band, compressing it, until it fit in the holder. That way the bands didn't chatter. I'm just wondering if there are tricks like that with asbestos brake bands.

The drum is slightly scored around the length, probably from rivets making contact over the years. A friend here at work suggested not refacing the drum as I might create more problems than I cure. I've noticed at least two small, fine cracks running across the band, about half an inch long. They look like they have been there a long time. Probably even stress relief cracks. I'm concerned that refacing might aggravate the cracks. Suggestion here? Leave well enough alone? The old brake always worked very well.

The old band wore nearly to the metal on one small spot only, about two inches long. The rest of the band still has lots of material. Is this from a poorly fitted band?

Since this is the ONLY brake on the car, I'd really like it to be done right.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Scott

ANSWER: SERIES 11 BRAKES

Scott,

You're right in all your assumptions, as far as I know. The asbestos will perform best for you and it needs to be installed in the band correctly. The ends of the lining are riveted first with the middle of the lining 'humped' slightly away from the band so that when the ends have been fastened securely, the hump may be pressed down and the lining compressed into the band. The problem here is: How much 'hump' is the right amount. I have no idea as I don't rivet the linings myself. I'll try to ask my brake guy and see what he says although I'm not sure he gets the lining as tightly compressed as I would like to see. This is likely due to the extreme rigidity of modern heavy-duty woven linings.

I cannot say for certain that a poor rivet job will lead to chatter, however. Other than grease on the lining or a very poor fitting band, the most common cause for chatter that I have seen is play in the transmission mainshaft. Franklin used annular ball bearings in the rear which is adjustable by installing shims behind the bearing into the bearing retainer. When the bearing wears, free play develops which causes the chatter. It's not really that bad of a job to adjust the bearing, especially if you've already got the band off. This applies to all 1906 - 1927 models.

I agree with you about the drum. Lay a square against it. The braking surface must be square to the mount. I've seen some badly tapered drums. Once tapered, they must be turned, or the band will creep and wear incorrectly. As far as the scoring, leave it alone, unless it is extreme. It was common for a rock, or some such to get trapped between the band and drum and badly score the drum. In these cases, replacement is best. If the scores are plentiful and more than 1/32", or so deep, I would be inclined to turn the drum.

I had one from a series 9 once that was so badly scored, we decided to try to weld it. We preheated the whole drum and welded it at a crankshaft shop with an automatic feed crankshaft welder. It went great for about $100 worth then suddenly went "TINK!" and the drum split. Oops. Thanks goes to Henry Gray for supplying another drum! Anyway, the grooves represent loss of surface area unless they are shallow enough to let the band wear into them. I would not worry about the cracks.

The band must fir the drum well and if the lining wore very unevenly, the band, must be straightened. I never had any luck with the way the manuals describe the procedure - inserting a screwdriver in the light spot and applying the brake to open that spot up slightly. I usually find it easier to shape it on the bench with hammers, pliers & such over a curved surface. We made new bands for a Packard once. It sure was easier than fixing the old ones. One of the worst things about a poor fit is that the lining wears out so quickly and the asbestos is all but impossible to find now.

I can't think of anything else night now. I'll try to remember to look up the method for figuring the amount of 'hump' during installation. Better check that rear bearing as well.

tom

April17, 2000

QUESTION: 1903/04 TWISTED CRANKSHAFT

Tom,
I am well on the way toward getting the repairs to my car done following my problems at LTB last fall. But we may have run into a snag. The guy who is doing the new babbitt rod bearing and some work on the crankshaft reports that the crankshaft appears to be twisted. The twist probably occurs in the No. 1-2 main bearing journal such that the no. 1 piston will arrive at top dead center either 3 degrees before or after no. 4 (I am not sure whether it will arrive before or after - I haven't seen the crankshaft since this was discovered.)

My questions. First, any idea of how this might be repaired?

Second, given that the engine is very forgiving as to such things as timing and even camshaft positioning, do you think it might be feasible to use the twisted crankshaft as is without trying to correct the twist.

Third, do you know anyone who might have a 1903/04 crankshaft, Richard Harry for example?

Tom, I may go up to Alexandria next Tuesday (April 18) to look at the situation. If you have any thoughts, it would be helpful if I could have them by then.
Thanks,

Chuck Johnson

ANSWER: 1903/04 TWISTED CRANKSHAFT

Chuck -

I talked to Jeff about your situation, he thought the best solution was to simply bend the crank back. You can use heat if needed. Set the crank up so you can take measurements of location of the throws in relation to degrees, find the area of twist, put a big wrench on it and give it a tug.

I cannot remember which cross-engine it was, maybe Walt Grove's car, but I put a slightly twisted crank back in an engine once. It was a very slight twist and I felt would make no concession to performance. The problem is when the trans extension twists - very common. In this case, I've had to have the ke-way welded and a new, straight way cut on the opposite side.

I do not know of any cranks, Richard does not have a spare. I'm sure you can pull & twist with all you might and not damage the crank if you're just trying to remove twist.

The last option is a new crank - really not all that bad to make. You can cut one out of a piece of flat stock tool steel to shape. There's certainly machining time involved, but it's not as bad as one might think. - or so I'm told!

Good luck

Tom

MORE ON THE CRANKSHAFT

Tom,

The current plan is to build up the journal (No. 1) that is out of position and then remachine it so that it lines up with the journal of No. 4. This will leave the "counterweights," or whatever they were called in 1903, slightly out of position but only minimally out of balance if at all. Any reaction to that idea?

Chuck

I really would not be afraid to wrench on it and try to twist it back. Welding on the journal is o.k., if done by a crankshaft specialist. I would not advise metal spraying or chrome plating to build it up.

When you are done, you will have to balance the crank anyway, so I don't see a problem with your idea. I'd still give it a tug first, though. They're awfully whippy little cranks. I suppose you run the risk of distorting the crank throughout some of the length if you do bend it, but welding will also distort it significantly.

Just thoughts...

tom

May 2, 2000

QUESTION: ALUMINUM BENDS SERIES 147 BODY

Hi, Tom...

I still haven't determined why the body frame for my roadster turned out to bee a tad too long. I think it was likely a combination of things, not one simplistic answer. It probably started with my not having a complete original sill to copy and the problem compounded from there. In any event, a little sanding, a little straightening, more sanding and some coaxing and we're almost there.

Today's question is related to a different aspect of the same body. I've got to build a new frame for the golf door, as well as the hamper door and I'm wondering how to best deal with the aluminum that bends over the steel strips attached to the wood frame. A local fellow who claims to have knowledge of aluminum says I should heat the metal with a heat gun (or in the oven at 150 - 175 degrees) to relieve some of its tension. He adds that the metal shouldn't be any more brittle today than it was 70 years ago. Finally, he cautions to take my time and be patient with it. That part I agree with, but I'm uncertain about the heat. What do you recommend?

Thanks for your continued help,

Ed >>

ANSWER: ALUMINUM BENDS SERIES 147 BODY
Dear Ed:

I'm glad to hear you're making progress.

The golf door will require some care in reattaching the skin. How was it removed? Frequently the bottom edge is nailed to the wood and the sides are folded over the steel shoes. By removing the nails, one can sometimes slide the skin off.

If the folded edges need to be opened, or have been opened, the aluminum will be work hardened at the point of 'un bending.' Aluminum work hardens very quickly and does not return to it's previous shape without annealing. Annealing will remove the work hardening, making re-bending and shaping possible.

To anneal the aluminum, it must be heated and quenched. We use an oxyacetylene torch to heat and water to quench. The tricky part is in heating the aluminum enough without melting it. If you do not heat enough, it will not fully anneal and will crack when you refold it.

The trick I learned involves applying a light, see-through layer of soot from a carbonizing flame (acetylene rich flame) from the torch. Just turn the oxygen down until the flame will deposit soot on the aluminum. The soot must not be heavy. The flame is about right when enough oxygen is added to eliminate the sooting off the end of the flame. It takes a bit of practice to get a nice layer. If it goes on too heavy, wipe it off and try again.

With a nice layer of soot, turn the torch back to a neutral flame and heat the aluminum slowly, keeping the flame moving fairly quickly. The soot will burn off and disappear below the melting point of aluminum. When the soot is gone, quench the part with water. You can use a sponge, or rag on an unwieldy component. The aluminum should now be dead soft where you annealed. Do small sections at a time. It may take more than one application to work if the part is folded and the heat must penetrate layers. Try to heat slowly and evenly. Keep in mind the aluminum will dissipate heat very quickly so you must get a feel for how much heat, how fast. If you heat too hot, too fast, the soot will burn off the surface, but the part will not be up to temp throughout.
If you heat too slowly, the entire part will heat up slowly and never get up to temp in the spot you're working.

Sometimes you will have to anneal one, or two more times while folding, bending or shaping a piece to avoid tearing or cracking.

I'm sure there are many other ways to attack the problem. This is the way I learned and it works very well for us. If you have a piece of scrap aluminum sheet approx. the same gauge, you might experiment with the soot and seeing just how far you can go until meltdown. You can actually go quite a bit hotter than the soot burn-off stage, but it takes a bit of experience (and courage)! To go very far beyond.

Good luck!

tom

May 2, 2000

QUESTION: TOP REPAIR

I need your advice again. The car roof, I noticed, is wearing very thin in
spots. It is obvious that in the past the roof was painted or coated with
something. Do you have any ideas as to what was used? Any suggestions? I
know that the best option would be to have a new roof put on, but that does
not fit my pocket right now.
Talk to you again soon
Fr.Doug

ANSWER: TOP REPAIR

I hate to admit it, but I really don't have an answer on this one. I know top dressings have been around, but I'm not certain what they were made of. It seems to me that they were simply lacquer paint, sometimes with plasticizers added, whatever those were. My Model A Ford parts house sold top dressing up until a few years ago, I wonder if any Ford outlets still do??

Anybody else know - tag here and leave your reply

May 16, 2000

QUESTION: ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP WITH THE ORIGINAL

Tom,
I have not pestered you for quite some time so here goes.
By the way, thanks again for all the help and guidance in the past.

The S16A I am working on has an electric fuel pump located just below the rear door, drivers side. There is no mechanical pump. With your help and guidance I have obtained a new pump, made up a push rod and am ready to mount same.

I don't know why someone removed the original pump. Lift on cam seems OK, about .110" as I recall.
I would like to keep the electric pump on as a back up. However I am not sure how to plumb up both pumps. Any advise ? Can I simply put pumps in series ? I have no idea if the electric pump would pump through the mechanical pump and no idea if the mechanical pump would pull through the electric pump. If I connect them in parallel do I need check valves. I know it would be easiest to just remove the electric but !!!!! As a side note I am in the middle of replacing all the wiring and am glad I am. I have found a lot of either bare wires or extremely brittle insulation.

Right now I have a pile of old wires on the floor and a lot of new wiring going to, I hope, all the right places. Some day I will get up enough nerve to connect the battery and see what works.

Looking forward to the Trek and hope I get this car on the road by then. Also, hope you can make it this year. You should have a chance to meet and see the results of all the help you give all of us as a small reward.
Bob

ANSWER: ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP WITH THE ORIGINAL

Bob -

If you have a pulse type pump, you may install it in series with the mechanical pump, the further back, the better. It will push through the original pump just fine and the engine pump will pull through the pulse pump. There is some pressure drop pulling through the pulse pump, which can make the system more prone to vapor lock. In my experience it is minimal with the pulse pump.

I install rotary pumps. These are extremely quiet and I have found them to be far more reliable. The engine pump cannot pull through a rotary, however. In this case, we install a loop around the rotary pump with a check valve. The mechanical pump pulls through the check valve, when the electric pump is turned on, the check valve closes.

I have no problem with your setup, however. I just have had bad luck with the pulse pumps - I have one on my own 153 though!

It's a good thing you're replacing the wiring. It's always scary to see how bad original wiring really is, even when it looks sound. A car fire is a very frightening thing.

tom

May 1, 2000

QUESTION: PAINTING OF DOOR JAMS, DOORS AND BODY

Hi Frank;

I am restoring a 1930 Franklin Coupe', and my painter has ask me a painting question that I can't answer. Hopefully you can ?

It concerns the painting of the door jams, both the body and the doors.

The car is a two tone, light body, with dark fenders and splash aprons, with the darker color continuing, beginning with the beltline upward.

The painter needs to know how to paint the jams on the body and the door.

l. Are the jams painted the darker color from top to bottom, all the way around, on both the body and doors?

2. Are the jams painted the lighter color from thebottom to the beltline, and then the dark color from the beltline upward, and across the top and then back down to the beltline at the cowl?

3. What is the painting scheme on the door jams?

As I can recall from cars at the last Trek at Caz, I saw many different painting schemes on the door jams, so I am confused.

Hope you can help, as usual, the painter needs to know as soon as possible.

Regards,

Jerry Houchens

ANSWER: PAINTING OF DOOR JAMS, DOORS AND BODY

Jerry -

The door posts and door jambs were painted main body color, in your case the lighter color. The edge of the center door post on a 4-door sedan that is exposed when the doors are closed was painted the upper body color, but this color did not wrap around the post.

I'm not as positive about a coupe', but I think the entire post was body color with again, just an exposed edge painted the upper body color.

The reasons for this treatment is mainly production time at the factory.

This is what I have found on all Walker-bodied cars. Dietrich tended to spend the extra time and wrap the upper body color all the way around the door posts and jambs.

It's always best to check with other owners of original cars, if you can.

Tom Rasmussen

May 23, 2000

QUESTION: REMOVING AN AXLE AND BEARING

Tom:

H E L P!!!!!!!!

Yes, I am in need of assistance. Please let me know if I am going about the is wrong way.

As you know from earlier e-mail I'm redoing the brakes on the 137. In the process I want to replace the seals on the rear so the shoes work the way they are supposed to.

Well, off came the safety wire, followed quickly by the 6 bolts holding on the bearing carrier. That's where I am and can't get any further. So far I've, gingerly, tried to pry and edge, tap it with the old hammer and wooden block, tried an axle puller from Don Kitchen, cursed (quite creatively I might add) but all to no avail.I'm out if ideas and insults!!

Can/should I apply heat remembering what is behind this area? What's a good next step? Have I forgotten something?

Thank you in advance....

Mark
ANSWER: REMOVING AN AXLE AND BEARING

Dear Mark -

Hmmmmm. Sounds like you're doing all the right things. I suppose it's just been in there for a very long time, or else a previous mechanic got carried away with some sealer.

Sometimes very old grease seems to harden into a glue-like mass. I guess I would try dousing the housing with Lacquer thinner for a day, then penetrating oil. With a brass hammer, or a brass drift, you should be able to smack quite firmly and break the bond by trying to rotate the housing. You can hit it pretty hard if you use a brass drift and a fair sized hammer and can get a square enough position to direct most of the blow into rotating the housing.

It sounds as though you avoided the most common mistake - prying like mad with big screwdrivers. You can pry very carefully, once you get the retainer moving - but pry lightly and evenly. Don's axle puller sounds like the way to go, after you get it started.

If you use heat, you'll make a helluva smoky mess and run the risk of damaging the bearing. Try liquid penetrants first, give them time to work and then try the hammer & drift technique, then the puller, if needed.

I think if the retainer were obviously rusted in place after having sat outside for years, you could take the torch to it, otherwise give it a try without the heat and see what happens.

Let me know how it works.

tom

June 8, 2000

QUESTION: 1925 11A LEAKING VALVE LIIFTER GUIDES

Could you help me with my oil leaks around the valve lifter guide. It seems like one will leak then it will be a different one the next time out.. Thanks. .. I'm going on the Franklin Westrek later this month and would like to have this problem solved before I go... I have a 1925 11A series... It is engine oil that is being pumped out... I do oil the rocker arms with a couple of drops of 30W oil. Leaks around the gasket, the guide feels like it's moving sometimes when the car is running.

ANSWER: 1925 11A LEAKING VALVE LIIFTER GUIDES
CJW -

The oil is getting out from around the base of the lifter guide and/or the base of the pushrod tube. Try tightening the nut on the clamp at the base of the tubes as well as tightening the aluminum valve cage bolts that bolt to the cylinder head.

Keep in mind that anytime you tighten this hardware, the valves must be re-adjusted.

If the gaskets are in poor condition, or the pushrod tube length is not properly set, the leaks will continue.

A lifter guide showing motion as the engine is running is in need of tightening. Have you have the valve cage assemblies off the engine recently?

Try tightening all the hardware, re-adjust the valves and let me know how it worked.

Tom Rasmussen

QUESTION: 1925 11A LEAKING VALVE LIIFTER GUIDES MORE INFORMATIOM

Thanks for your reply to my problem... it's been an on - going problem for years... I have tried tightening the clamps but maybe I don't tighten them enough... i tried tighten them some more...and some new gaskets and adjusted the valvues again... and it seems to help some... next long run will tell whether it worked. Thank you very much for the help...

ANSWER: 1925 11A LEAKING VALVE LIIFTER GUIDES MORE INFORMATION
CJW -

If you've tightened the clamps then the only solution is to disassemble and re-fit the parts properly. To do this:

- Remove a valve cage from the cylinder being careful not to let the lifters fall to the floor and get mixed up.
- Remove the rocker arm shaft & arms & pushrods - keep them in order.
- Clean the pushrod tubes, lifters, lifter guides & crankcase surface. All must be clean & dry.
- Cut new gaskets for the lifter guides & pushrod tubes, or order them from John Hasslen - 320-274-5576
- Insert the guides, with gaskets onto the case. Slip tube gaskets over the guides.
- Loosen the pushrod tube locknuts inside & under the valve cage. Screw the lower nut down a full turn.
- Install the valve cage and clamp the tubes in place making certain the nuts are free to turn. Bolt the box down.
- Now everything is sitting naturally aligned. You must now tighten the pushrod nuts. I usually snug them slightly, then remove the cage and tighten securely. A copper gasket above the lower nut will seal the box, they're hard to find but you can use some sealer on these threads or a bit of silicone.
- Install the rocker shaft & arms. Use gasket sealer on the lifter gasket and lower tube gasket and assemble.
- Adjust valve clearance.

I have a special bent wrench that allows tightening of the lower nuts while installed. This can help seal a fresh leak, but if you've had lifters moving around, you really should pull it all apart and reset & re-gasket them. The crankcase surface gets badly worn when the lifters are allowed to rock around. If you've got a good place to work, you can do the whole job easily in an afternoon.

After you're done, you can wash the crankcase and enjoy that beautiful natural aluminum look without all that oil mess.
Good Luck!

tom

June 24, 2000

QUESTION: SIDE DRAFT ENGINE PAINT/VALVE ROTATORS

Were the cylinders and cylinder heads on a side draft engine painted originally ? If I do decide to paint them will paint affect the cooling of the cylinders ? Also, I have copper gaskets between the cylinders and the crankcase. Is this correct or should I use paper as on my down draft? I have rotators on the exhaust valves, should I get rid of them ?
Thanks for assistance.
Bob

ANSWER: SIDE DRAFT ENGINE PAINT/VALVE ROTATORS

Bob -

I think the cyls were originally painted silver. No-one likes to admit this because silver looks terrible after it stains a bit. I use VHT Motorcycle crankcase & cylinder paint - satin black. It is a heat dissipating paint.

Perhaps the copper gaskets aided in heat transfer to the aluminum case, I don't really know. I find they always leak and use paper.

Valve rotators have lost favor in the industry due to excess valve seat wear, perhaps associated with unleaded fuel. I do not believe this is reason alone to remove them from your engine. Jeff Hasslen has run them on his 163 for upwards of 40,000 miles using Ford Sodium-cooled valves. It is important that the valve spring pressure be correct 48-52 lbs of seat pressure.

tom

July 1, 2000

QUESTION: HARD STARTING 1925 SERIES 11-A

Tom

About three years ago I purchased a 1925 Franklin 11-A and have had absolutely no trouble with it until recently. The problem did happen a couple of times in the past but they were isolated incidents and the car ran fine afterwards. My problem is that the car starts on about the third roll when it is cold but once I get up to temp it refuses to start until I let it cool for about 15 to 30 minutes. I have replaced the coil, condenser, ground wire to the distributor, and the coil wire with no improvement. I thought that it may have something to do with the valves getting sticky when it got hot because I have been running straight 30 wt on them and not a synthetic. I got some Valve Medic and poured that on the valve train to dissolve any gum that may have formed and then oiled them up good with a pure synthetic oil but it has made no difference in my performance. I can start the car and drive about 4 to 5 miles before I notice it starting to run rough. At that point I have to keep the engine above an idle or the car will die.

If it dies or if I shut it off I have to go through the cool-down process before it will start again. As you can well imagine this has become extremely annoying. When I first got the car it would start on about half a rev when hot. This problem has really got me stumped. I borrowed a distributor cap from a friend and tried that but it made no difference either. He suggested that I get a hold of you and tell you my woes and perhaps you could shed some light on the problem for me. He (Don Moore) said that he had gotten help from you in the past and that you were the guru of all things Franklin. I hope that I will be able to benefit from your vast store of knowledge as well. I don't know what else I can tell you but if you have any ideas or questions I would be ever so grateful if you would drop me a line. Thank you for you time.

Sincerely

Geoff Rogers

ANSWER: HARD STARTING 1925 SERIES 11-A

Dear Geoff,

Hmmmm......

Franklins are notoriously good hot-starters. We've got to start from scratch and run through our 3 needs: compression, ignition, fuel

For compression - you mentioned a possibility of sticky valves. Do you hear any increased engine noises that might be associated with the valvetrain sticking? Frequently one can hear the trouble. You can also install a vacuum gauge and watch for erratic readings. You could try a turn with the hand crank when the engine is hot to feel if there is a significant loss of compression (ignition off). I tend to discount valves as a possibility as I think you would surely be aware of excess noise.

Ignition problems are commonly heat-related. You've replaced the coil and ground wire - good moves. Have you tried testing for spark when the engine is hot? Do you get a good, strong blue spark, or a weak yellow one? Do you notice a difference hot/vs cold when checking spark? You've still got points & condenser to check & replace. Also spark plug wires, although not as likely, can break down when hot, yet function fine when cold. Also check ignition timing and for proper operation of the automatic advance.

Fuel problems are also common. One of the most notorious is vapor lock. Try the following: Get the car good and hot so that it will cause the problem to occur. Pour cold water directly on top of the carburetor (or on a towel wrapped around the carb) and fuel line from the vacuum tank. If the problem disappears, you've got vapor lock trouble.
Also check for vacuum leaks when hot. Keep it running and spray some carb cleaner around manifold joints to look for leaks that might open up under heat.

I'm sorry I cannot offer any 'magic' solutions, Geoff. You've got a fairly common problem that is almost always caused by a fairly simple defect. The trouble is, the defect could be one of a great number of things. Start again to attack the problem logically, covering every component of each system. Eventually, you'll find it.

Keep me posted on your progress & good luck!

Tom

August 24, 2000

QUESTION: SERIES 15 & 16 FUEL PUMP/SPARK PLUG TUBE/OVERDRIVE

We, my Uncle Frank (Ober) and I have a '32 Airman and a '31 convertible. Three questions:

1. Where do we get a kit to rebuild the AC fuel pump on the '31?
2. The '32 has extending tubes on the spark plugs into which the plug wires plug. Know where to get these?
3. Does anyone have the brochure/wiring diagram for the overdrives Bob Green sold, electric, not vacuum? Our has not worked since I replaced the main solenoid (from which a wire appears to go to the overdrive (indirectly). We've lost our papers on this.

Thanks very much. Please either publish answers on the WEB page, or respond to johnober@aol.com.

John

ANSWER: SERIES 15 & 16 FUEL PUMP/SPARK PLUG TUBE/OVERDRIVE

John -

Order a fuel pump rebuild kit from Antique Auto Parts Cellar, (781) 335-1579. The business is run by Tom Hannaford. He supplies a great many valuable parts and services that we Franklin owners can use.

For the fuel pump, I recommend purchasing a new pump with a primer handle. This is an AC lower body, for marine use that has a handle allowing one to manually operate the pump. Very handy for startup after storage. Tom can assemble these from brand new stock.

The spark plug ends are not readily available. You will have to search Swap meets or have them machined. If you wish to make them, purchase a factory drawing from Jeff Hasslen and have them machined.

As far as the overdrive, I do not have a working scanner right now, so send me your mailing address and I'll sketch out the wiring and mail it to you. If it will help, I can tell you that the solenoid has two wire connections. A heavy (12 ga) wire runs from the overdrive relay to the solenoid. The other wire on the solenoid is a lighter (14 ga) wire that runs to the kick-down switch.

I hope this helps!

tom
It seems to be that the overdrive going INTO gear shouldn't be a matter of electric, but one of mechanical, once you have pulled the dashboard handle out. Would anyone in the club be a specialist on Bob Green's earlier overdrive installations?

The handle simply locks the overdrive out, otherwise the operation is electric entirely. The solenoids give frequent trouble - they are old. You can remove and test it. You should carry a spare with the car. I do not have a source for these.

I'll drop a diagram in the mail.

tom

August 25, 2000

QUESTION: INFORMATION ON SERIES 15/16 ENGINE

Hi Frank,

I haven't bothered you or said hello, so here I am again. I am not sure what address to use for the technical column that Tom writes so thought I would go to my expert consultant.. The last time I wrote you I told you I had bought the 31 Club Sedan that was in the For Sale section of the web, with a picture of your club at the bottom. I do now have a rolling rebuilt chassis, the cab mounted, wood work at the rear figured out and finished, so I am thinking toward engine work. You may recall I mentioned getting several engines and I lean strongly toward your seeming recommendation to go back to the original engine.
I understand the second owner installed the 33 engine because of leaks at the copper gasket at the base of the JUGS. The crank mikes out good, however when I unloaded the 2 car trailer load of part , the main caps did not have nuts on them and #s 2 &3 fell off the block, and I haven’t found any markings to show which is who, or which direction they go in. I found the main bearings in a cigar box, and ingeniously strung together in a manner I can tell how they go. I would like to drop the crank in the block and plastigage the bearings just in case by some chance it is still good. I guess I can just keep switching and find the proper location by accident , but thought I would go my unusual way and ask for possible directions. I don’t mean to keep picking on you, but since I wasn’t looking for parts didn’t want to bother Tom at Ody. I couldn’t find an E-mail address at the questions section and wondered whats wrong with me. Wonder if his address at the beginning of his column would help. Anyway best regards from Helen & me, and if you do know of any markings on the mains I would appreciate knowing. Ron

ANSWER: INFORMATION ON SERIES 15/16 ENGINE

Hi Ron -

Reminds me of a story.....

My first Franklin was a Series 12 sedan. I bought it as a running car. Trouble was, I did not buy it as a STARTING car. The seller had me call him when I was 10 min out of town for directions. When I got there, the car was running, ragged, fast idle, but running. I made the deal, got it home and tried for 2 days to start it again. It had virtually no compression. The seller must have towed it at 20mph to get it going. Live and learn.

I ended up doing a complete overhaul (actually 2 complete overhauls, another story). With the bare crankcase out, I took it to the local do-it-yourself carwash and let loose with the high pressure washer. It did a fantastic job of degreasing the block. It did an even better job of blasting the main bearing shells out of the block and sending them skittering across the floor. I thought they were cast in place.

I then finally made a good decision, boxed up all the parts and dragged them over to Jeff Hasslen's house. It took several long evenings to swap all inserts around every which way until the crank turned nicely with good contact.

You can easily do the same for a couple caps. ALL caps must be torqued when testing for drag. The crank should turn without noticeable drag, but some binding when initially breaking free is normal. If the crankcase is laying upside down on a bench, or in a stand with the flywheel OFF, you should be able to grasp the counterweights with two hands and give a healthy jerk. If the crank will spin at least 3/4 revolution, it's likely not too tight. I don't know how else to describe the feel, I learned from watching others. If you can get the clearance down to 0.0015, your rod bearings will thank you for the extra oil.

Good Luck

Tom

August 31, 2000

QUESTION: 1919 VALVE TRAIN ASSEMBLY

Tom,

I sure do enjoy reading your advice to everyone!

You recently walked someone through '25 valve train assembly. Would your 9 step advice apply for a '19 as well? I'm getting' there.

Eck

ANSWER: 1919 VALVE TRAIN ASSEMBLY

Dear Eck -

I can't remember what I said about the '25 valvetrain assembly. 9-step process, huh? Maybe I can remember a few of them.

The Series 9 assemble procedure would, indeed be the same as the Ser. 10 - 13. Just make sure the tubes are clamped first, then bolt the boxes down to the cylinders. Hand tighten the tube nuts to clamp to the boxes. Carefully pull the whole works off and tighten the tube nuts, install the rockers & shaft & you're set. Don't forget to have the new gaskets in place under the lifter guides and pushrod tubes when setting.

On the Series 9, don't forget the air deck sealing washers before you lay the box over the tubes. On the later downdrafts, they're felt washers.

Won't be long and you'll be driving that car all over.

tom

MORE ON THE 1919

Tom,

Thanks. But you can't get off that easy.

Gaskets? I think I'm all set at the tube and lifter end although I'd be more comfortable if they were thicker. Got them from Hasslen (?). I'm OK with the copper washers under the cage, but shouldn’t there also be a paper shim between the copper washer and the cage? Also, shouldn’t there be some kind of gasket between the inside tube nut and cage? Finally, shouldn’t there be a gasket between the cage and cylinder?

This thing wont go 70 til a get it together, Tom. And thanks to you and couple of others, it just might come about one of these days.

Eck

Eck -

You're making me think. It hurts.

Use some sealer on the lifter gaskets from Hasslen and they'll seal fine.

The Series 9 parts book lists no other gaskets or washers. I'm not sure what you mean by copper washers under the cage. I cannot remember on the Ser. 9 (and am too lazy to go dig out a cage) but the later cars had a pad built into the cage bolt bores on the underside to create an air gap between the cage and cylinder head. I think this was to insure that any oil added to the valvetrain would not pool around the valvesprings and harden and cook itself into a hard crust that could interfere with valvespring operation. Oil that did not go towards lubricating the valves went towards lubricating the outside of the engine and underside of the car.

Later cars had a copper/asbestos ring gasket between the lower pushrod tube nut and the cage to keep oil from dripping down the outside of the pushrods.

Herb Martin - Billings MT, devised a pump & gasket system on his Ser. 12 which removes oil from the valve cages - a nifty, yet complicated device.

I have also heard of valve felts with 'tails' to soak up excess oil in the rocker box.

At any rate, I think it unwise to try to seal the rocker box (valve cage) to the cylinder. The oil leaks down the jug and onto the engine base. The mess really is not too bad. If you clean the engine every few thousand miles, it stays nice & clean.

It is a good idea, however, to seal the pushrod tubes to the cage so oil does not run down them and spill onto the air deck. I do not now have a source for the copper/asbestos tube gaskets but have purchased them at our local airport/aircraft engine rebuilder before. I have also used simply a sealer (loctite) on these after assembling.

of course, this is just my 2 cents worth. There are lots of ways of doing things.

When that car does 70, I'll send you a congratulatory telegram!

tom

QUESTION: 1928 FRANKLIN GENERAL

Dear Mr. Rasmussen,

I read your great article in the Franklin Club website about your meeting with John Glenn. It was a very interesting and amusing story! I hope I'm not bothering you by writing, but I am trying to get a little more information on 1928 Franklins. I am considering the purchase of a 1928 12B sedan. I have researched as much as possible, and I have discovered that the '28 engine is 48 horsepower (or 46, depending on the source). I am wondering how roadworthy a '28 Franklin would be, as the later models had much higher horsepower. I have owned several early cars, such as a '29 Dodge and '31 Buick, so I know that they tend to be geared fairly low and cannot be driven at speeds over 50 to 55 (which doesn't bother me), but they also had much higher horsepower engines. I love the style of the Franklins, and would like very much to own one, but I am a little concerned about the issue of whether they can drive at sustained speeds of about 55 mph. I am unable to drive the car I'm considering buying, so I thought the best way to find out would be to ask someone who owns one. Also, do you know of any problems common to the '28 Franklin that I should be concerned with before I decide on a purchase? Any insights from you would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much for your time.

Best regards,

Jim Meehan

ANSWER: 1928 FRANKLIN GENERAL

Dear Jim,

How nice it is to hear of your interest in 1928 Franklin's. It is always enjoyable to find one who is interested in learning about them as it brings back fond memories of my own early learning stages and the fascination that built as I learned more and more.

The style of the 1928's and all the Franklins is certainly endearing enough. But the mechanics and construction are what really makes them so interesting.

The 1928 Franklin Series 12-A produced 46 HP. In mid-year a new model was announced, the 12-B which produced 48 HP, due mainly to a very slight increase in compression ratio. Several other minor changes were made as well. Really, it was a mid-year update.

The engines and drivetrains were so very well engineered and constructed that they perform extremely well under hard usage. This I know from experience. My own 1928 12-B sedan took me all over the Midwest and East at 55 mph, which was pretty much full throttle, foot-to-the-floor. There are several others who have put as many miles on their Series 12's as well. I do not know of another 1928 make of car that could be driven in this manner today (in, basically stock condition).
Today we have high-speed differential gears available (on occasion) which make 55 mph easier for the 1928. Bear in mind - you will need all of that 48 HP to run these speeds. As such, the engine must be in absolutely PERFECT condition. There are a few updates we make to them, such as insert bearings in the rods, valve seat inserts, higher compression, modern seals and extremely careful balance. The chassis must also be up to par with excellent springs, steering, wheels, brakes, driveshaft & u-joints etc... It can take a lot of work to bring a car up to this state. After that, it takes diligent maintenance and occasional repairs. The cars hold up, but are not bulletproof.

While the later cars have more power, the 1928 is capable and has such a wonderful look and feel. The 1928 is the last of the wood-framed car and the last with Franklin's own transmission (the later Warner & Detroit units never proved as reliable as Franklin's own). 1928 & '29 were the last with Franklin's own steering gearbox, a design greatly favored by the circle track & dirt track race car builders of the 1930's - 1950's.
1928 is also the first Franklin with 4-wheel Lockheed Hydraulic brakes and the last with coachwork wholly designed by J. Frank deCausse. It would be easy to go on and on.

Problems with 1928's include:
Frame sag (various methods of dealing with this depending on severity)
Cracked cylinders (repair or replace)
Missing/inoperative shock absorbers
Rod Bearings (replace)
cracks in the aluminum coachwork at the corners of the window openings (minor)
Carburetors (diecast, impossible to find)
Any other problems are common to any vehicle of this age and consist mainly of wear & tear.

I hope this gives you some of the info you were looking for, Jim

Tom Rasmussen

September 22, 2000

QUESTION: TIE RODS AND ROD CONNECTIONS BALLS

Tom;

It was nice seeing you again at the TREK.

I have run accross a problem with a couple of Tie Rod and Steering Rod connection balls, that have about 2/16ths of wear at the base of the neck, and don't feel comfortrable using them. Is there a source for these new? Or, can you recommend a solution to my problem?

Regards,

Jerry Houchens

ANSWER: TIE RODS AND ROD CONNECTIONS BALLS

Jerry -

Sorry - I don't know of a source for these. I've been lucky enough to find one or two when I really needed some - just by asking around & writing letters. I get concerned when they wear at the neck - usually by the dust cover sliding around from a broken dust cover tension spring. This type of wear looks like an accident waiting to happen. I have thought about welding it, probably would need to normalize the part, weld it and re-heat treat it, or some such. A conversation with a heat treater (maybe several conversations with several welders/heat treaters) would be in order before proceeding down this road. This is not an area where you want to take any chances. I've done just enough of this kind of repair to know that there's one right way and many wrong ways.

There likely is a ball out there that will fit into the Franklin with little modification, but I don't know of one that anyone has discovered. We also need a source for the dust cover spring steel tension thingys. John Hasslen always talked about making these - every single Franklin needs at least a couple of them as they wear & break readily.

Sorry I could not be of more help - I would suggest you ask around for some spares first.

tom

October 13, 2000

QUESTION: How do I know when a rebuild is necessary/ What should I do to ready myself if I do decide I want to work on the engine alone

Dear Frank,

Hello, we met at the trek. I have a question for the Technical section:

I have 2 running FranklinS, a 130 Sedan and 135 Coupe. The 135 Coupe has just been mechanically restored by Neal Kissel, and he has done a wonderful job. The 130 Sedan, however, was "restored" before my father bought it in about 1988. Since buying it, and doing a lot of cosmetic work on it, the engine is starting to get tired. I have driven it 2200 miles since owning it, and I have done rewiring and external engine work, such as adjusting valves, fixing minor problems with the ignition system (the condenser failed), and replacing pushrods and rocker boxes. From all I can tell, the restoration was not done very well, or it is in original condition. I am thinking about rebuilding the engine myself, now that I have another Franklin going. (I need a running Franklin because I sold my modern car to buy a series 8!!)
Well, basically my questions are this....

How do I know when a rebuild is necessary?

The engine in my 130 makes A LOT more noise than the engines in other 130s and 12A and 12B cars I have observed. The performance is good. I can drive at 55 on the freeway, and the car will go 60. I went over a 30 mile 6% grade at 40 in high with no problems or overheating. (The car has a stock 4.54 rear end.) At the '00 Trek I had the pleasure of driving Emmit Hood's 12B Victoria, and it really was an awe inspiring experience for me. One other thing is that the valves get out of adjustment VERY fast. I can set them to .010" and find them very sloppy after only 30 or 40 miles of driving. What might this mean?

What should I do to ready myself if I do decide I want to work on the engine alone?

What I really want to be able to do is: 1) Take it apart 2) Decide what needs to be done and 3) Put it back together. I would take all the parts to be machined by a professional.

I would really appreciate any input anyone has on these issues.

Thanks,
Robert Webb

ANSWER: How do I know when a rebuild is necessary/ What should I do to ready myself if I do decide I want to work on the engine alone

Dear Robert,

You sure ask tough questions! When an engine needs a rebuild is partly determined by the owner's intended use. To me, an engine needs a rebuild when I get it, simply because I want to know that it's right and will give me good performance and reliability. On the opposite extreme, some will not consider rebuilding until it something breaks or they get tired of pulling jugs and dropping the pan to repair yet another problem. There is no right answer.

Noise is objectionable, but not necessarily a reason for overhaul. Where are the noises coming from? Valves? Pistons? Bearings?

You say the performance is good - a positive sign - but the valvetrain will not stay in adjustment. This is certainly a problem that should be addressed. I thing you should tighten every nut & bolt on the entire engine, starting with cylinder bases, pushrod tubes at the bottom and at the boxes, rocker arm stud, manifolds, etc... Then see if the valves stay in adjustment any better. If not, it's possible you have some valve seating problems.

I think I would next move on to a compression check of all cylinders and a cylinder leakage test to determine the condition of the rings & valves. How about piston noise? You can listen to the side of the jug by using a long screwdriver, or wooden stick - place one end on the side of the jug, press the other against your ear. On a 130, the pistons should be pretty quiet when hot, but will certainly make some noise when cool, or even warm.

If you plan on driving the car, I would advise pulling the oil pan and inspecting bearings for clearance & condition. Check the crankshaft journal at the same time. You can live with some wear, but not excessive clearance, or chipping babbitt. Rod bearings with old babbitt will not last long with excessive clearance.

You should be able to perform these tests to help give you a bit better idea as to the condition of the engine. When you learn more, it will be easier to determine how far to go to repair/restore the engine.

Good luck, let me know what you come up with.

Tom Rasmussen

QUESTION: oil ring on piston AND U-joints

I called you several months ago and asked you how to remove the transmission from an engine block on a 1922 Franklin. I have successfully cleaned and refurbished the engine (which was in surprisingly good shape - see enclosed picture) and am in the process of putting it back together.

During the dismantling process the oil ring on piston #1 broke and I need to replace it. Is there a modern part number for rings that will work on this car or will I have to pray that someone has done a small production run on them? Also I am interested in purchasing the spicer u-joints for this car if you still have some.

Thanks in advance,
David

ANSWER: oil ring on piston AND U-joints

Dear David -

Glad to see you've made so much progress on the engine.

As far as the broken ring, it all depends on what kind of piston you have. Is it an original? Replacement?

Original pistons have ring groove depths that are shallower than modern standards. As such, you would need to find a shallow groove ring to fit. You can call Egge Machine 800-866-3443 or Weaver's Garage (I don't have Weaver's # handy, they are in Hemmings, Egge buys from him anyway).

If you have modern pistons, you can still get a ring from Egge. You will need to measure the groove depth as well as the old ring.

As far as the U-joints, they are $37.50 each, $75/set plus shipping. If you want them, just send me your full address and I'll ship them out.

Sincerely,
Tom

October 26, 2000

QUESTION: 1928 UPHOLSTERY, PANIT OTHER ITEMS

Frank,
I emailed you last month regarding my recent acquisition of a 1928 Franklin 12-A 7 passenger sedan, serial #Y173288l23. At that time I asked if you had any records showing what type upholstery materials, paint colors & schemes, etc. were used on the '28 models. I also asked if there was any way to track the chain of ownership on this vehicle. You were apparently away from home at the time and asked that I contact you later. Here I am! Any assistance you can give me would be appreciated. Also an email address for the person in the club who handles the sale of service manuals, prints, etc. This vehicle has a Stromberg OE2 carb instead of the OE1. Is the much difference and was this stock and is there any literature available on it.

Thank you so much.
Llewel Walters

QUESTION: 1928 UPHOLSTERY, PANIT OTHER ITEMS

Dear Llewel,
Upholstery in the Ser. 12 sedans was either plain wool Broadcloth or wool Mohair. I have seen both and cannot tell you which is appropriate for one model vs another. I will say that Mohair seems to be more common in the 12-B. I do not believe Mohair was used much in Franklins on any other years for closed models - Broadcloth being, by far, the most used material, Leather on the sport and oxford sedans and some special jobs. Generally the broadcloth was keyed to the main exterior color - green cloth for green cars, blue for blue cars, gray and tan used for most others.

Paint colors varied widely but tended all towards dark browns, dark greens and an occasional blue. Reds, Yellows & light colors were extremely rare on Ser. 12's. Upper Body, Chassis & Fenders were nearly always black for the '28 closed cars. One place to look at colors is in the color ads placed in various magazines of the period. Keep in mind that ads can show trends in colors, but are frequently way off in terms of actual colors and schemes. Ads were intended to make the car look good in print and bring people into the showroom. I find that the closed cars in 1928, however, seem to be fairly true color-wise in the period ads. (Far less so for open cars & Customs).

The original carb on the 12-A was a Stromberg T-2. These have suffered a poor survival rate and are difficult to find today. If you An OE-2 carb is probably a pretty good replacement.

I think the difference between the OE-1 and the OE-2 is simply throat size and bolt spacing, the OE-2 being larger. Adjustments for all the O-series carbs are pretty much the same. I can send you info if you need it, send me your address.

I would suggest you contact other owners of 12-7 sedans and see what you come up with in terms of colors & upholstery materials. Also - you should be able to determine what colors were originally on you car with a bit of sleuthing. Even a restored car frequently has traces of its original colors behind upholstered panels, under the cowl, inside seat risers, etc.

Good Luck!

Tom Rasmussen

November 29, 2000

QUESTION: DOOR JAM COLORS

ANSWER: DOOR JAM COLORS

Dear Webmaster, In answer to the question about Franklin door jam colors. In about 1927 Franklin is said to have started using the new nitrocel. paints. On several known to be original, Walker bodied cars, the inner surfaces of the door jams and edges where all painted black, by brush, over the spray painted body color(s). The outer face of center lock post matched the corresponding body color(s). I'm not sure about other suppliers of bodies to Franklin . This type of paint was said to be hand rubbed. Ever rub out the paint in a door jam? not fun! I think that in production bodies it's faster to paint over with gloss enamel then hand rub the jams and door edges. In the cars I’ve seen the brush strokes where vertical, and very fine, the consistency from one car to another leads me to believe they where done at the factory. Also no need to mask off outer face of center posts if using a brush. Good luck, PAUL FITZPATRICK.

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