Franklin

Answers and Questions Page #4

The H. H. Franklin Club publishes the information listed in FAQ's solely as a convenience to its members. No endorsement is made by the Club or Region, no claim or warranty is made as to the accuracy of any of this information. No responsibility is assumed for any transactions resulting form this information. Most technical questions are answered by members that work on Franklins every day.

Many technical questions have come to the WebMaster desk as will as questions directed to other members. In most cases we find the questions an answers to be of valuable help in finding parts replacement, oils, or just plain technical help.

In the weeks and months to come we will place the un-edited questions and answers here for your information and help. Should you have a question, please feel free to e-mail us with them. If we do not have the answer we will find some one that can help. You will receive your reply by e-mail as well as have it placed here for other members information. However, we will only list question an answers that are from Club members.

Thanks goes out to those members that have taken the time to reply to e-mail forward to them by this WebMaster. As always, the Franklin Spirit of helping one another is alive and well. Our Franklin hat is off the you, thanks. Starting June 17, 1998 we will list the name of the technical person answering the question.

OLDEST QUESTION AND ANSWER FIRST and NEWEST LAST

Page number 4, questions start in January 2001

Last Revised December 19, 2001

January 13, 2001

QUESTION: 1932 ORIGINAL ITEMS or NOT

In October I purchased a 1932 Franklin Oxford Sedan. The exterior of the car has been restored and looks great. I am trying to correct some aspects which were inauthentic ( I show vehicles a lot with CCCA & AACA.) I have replaced all plastic wiring with correct type cloth covered wiring and now have all lights working. Some items on the car I believe are aftermarket and should be removed for show -- but I surely don't want to destroy or remove a rare or novel factory option:
A very old looking electrid fan with rubber blades is mounted above the drivers door and aimed at the driver. The style reminds me of a 1940s Vornado House fan my Grandmother had. Aftermarket?A large wooden cabinet is built in behind the drivers seat with drawers for storage. It has 2 courtesy lights and fits neatly -- but would it be "Correct"?Running board lights. Utility trailer type marker lights have been painted body color on the exposed side and shine down over the runnign board on each side. I feel sure these are incorrect, but would the car have had courtesy lights over the running board ??I have earlier Franklins, but little knowledge of 30s cars and would appreciate your thoughts ?

Randy Still
(Franklin Club member since 1986)

ANSWER: 1932 ORIGINAL ITEMS or NOT

Hi Randy -

A '32 Oxford is a nice find and should make a great car. As far as your questions go, the fan is certainly a non-authentic item. I don't know when vacuum powered fans came on the scene, but I believe it was the very tail end of the 1930's, if even that early.

The wooden cabinet is intriguing. I have never seen such an item in a stock Ser. 16, but it certainly could have been a special order or installed very early on in the car's life. It might be a very difficult piece to document, but you should be able to determine if it's a professional, period installation, or not. If it's not up to the build quality of the rest of the car, I would assume it to have been added.

There were no runningboard step lights on the 1932.

Send me a photo sometime - it sounds like a great car.

Tom Rasmussen

QUESTION: RUBBER GASKET 11A WINDOW & IGNITION

Hi Tom,
Yes it is officially the new Millenium.. A good one to you to!
Thank you for the information. I will let you know how it turns out.
Just found a pin-type grease gun adaptor for my Alemite nipples!..at Alemite.com !
Would you know where to find the rubber gasket that goes at the meeting of the two panes of the front split-window of the early 11-A's? Would probably be the same as for the 10-C. Do I have any chance of finding Atwater Kent (Model RA) distributor cap and rotor (rare commodity?!!) or is there any way of reconditioning these parts? I understand that some of the 11-A's have been fitted with a Delco-Remy distributor. Would I be better to look for one of these on the long run or as a spare? I would prefer to find a way to keep the original but driving a reliable car is my priority. Have attached a few pictures.
I appreciate your help Tom and I hope that I am not imposing to much!
Andre

ANSWER: RUBBER GASKET 11A WINDOW & IGNITION

Andre -

The windshield rubber is available from Steele Rubber Products, Denver, North Carolina 800-544-8665. Part# 19-0005-52, comes in a 4-foot strip. This is for the top of the bottom pane on a two-pane windshield where the top pane swings out and does not overlap the bottom pane when closed. For overlapping panes, use #19-0006-52.
There are at least 2 other manufacturers of this rubber, but I find Steele's part to be of the best quality.

For ignition parts - your easiest route is to phone some ignition dealers. The parts are still available, but prices have been steadily climbing. I always call Roy Powers, Fabius New York 315-683-5376 first as he is a Franklin Club member and a 1st-class individual. If he does not have the parts, then open Hemmings and call the ignition dealers listed in the mixed makes parts section. There are 2, or 3 who are may have Atwater Kent parts. This route is the quickest and most expensive. Dealers need to cover overhead and expenses related to procuring, sorting, storing and advertising their parts. On average, you may spend less if you advertise for the parts you need, but it takes more time. You can frequently save even more by searching swap meets - takes even longer. Finally, you can develop a long-lasting, close friendship with someone who already has one and get it for free! You either invest money, or time.

You can convert to a Delco system, but the Atwater Kent parts are still out there and there is something nice about running original components that are operating well.

Good Luck!

tom

Andre -

I just looked at your photos. The cap looks a bit worn, as does the rotor, but they may still be useable. You can clean the contacts on the cap and as long as it does not have cracks or carbon tracks, it may work just fine. If the erosion wear on terminals gets severe enough, the gap may be too wide for smooth running. Same for the rotor. If it is in sound condition and the end terminal is not badly eroded, it should operate fine. Sometimes they get loose on the distributor shaft, which can also cause erratic performance.

I have never tried to rebuild these units, have not yet had to. I wonder if the distributor cap contacts can be built up somehow? I've seen new rotor parts epoxied in place, but would not wish to rely on such a component. Might be fine as a spare.

Just remembered! Someone reproduced an Atwater Kent cap, cannot remember the application, may have been Ser. 9. Roy Powers knows the source, I believe. Same guy made caps for early 30's Packards. It might be worth running this lead down. If you cannot locate the source, let me know as I can likely dig it up.
tom

January 31, 2001

QUESTION: SERIES 147 RUMBLE SEAT OPENING

Hi, Tom...

Do you have any suggestion where I might find a close-to-original
replacement for the drip channel that wraps around the hamper opening on my 147 roadster? The original is badly rusted, and only a couple of inches are usable for a pattern. I've got a feeling that I'm going to have to take it to a custom sheet metal shop for fabrication, but wanted to check with you first.

As always, any guidance or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed

ANSWER: SERIES 147 RUMBLE SEAT OPENING

Hi Ed -

I'm sorry to say I know of no existing channel that will work as rain gutter in the rumble seat opening. You'll need to have some made. If it's only repair sections you need, it's not difficult for a general metal fab shop. It sounds as if you the whole piece, in which case most production shops will likely shy away from the job due to the curvature of the side legs. You can have 3 straight channels made and curve them yourself, not easy, or find an auto or aircraft custom shop that can fabricate it for you. Look in the yellow pages under Sheet metal fabricators.

I wish I could be of more help, but it's not a simple piece. Is the channel uniform throughout it's run? Sometimes they get deeper as they run along the sides toward the back. How wide is it? If it's pretty narrow, you can make a form out of steel plate and hammer the channel over it - difficult to come up with a form for wide channel - over 3/8". My guess is yours is more like 5/8 - 3/4" wide? There are different kinds of straight channels available - what are the dimensions?
tom

MORE ON THE RUMBLE SEAT CHANNEL

Tom,

Thanks for your reply to my rain gutter problem. Here are the dimensions: the back of the channel is 1" high, the front is 1/2" high (with an additional 1/8" bent inside to eliminate a sharp edge) and, as you suspected, the channel is 5/8" wide outside to outside. It seems to be uniform throughout, with a slight variation on the two sides where the channel was bent to match the hamper contour.

I'll look forward to any additional thoughts you might have on this.

Ed >>

Dear Ed -

I think you'll have to make this piece by hand. It would not be cost effective to tool up to roll this channel out as you're dealing with small quantities. We would hand form it over a hardwood, or steel buck. Steel would make the actual fabrication much easier, but it is difficult to form the buck unless you have a good friend with a fabricating shop that can cut it out for you.
It sounds like the inside of the channel is about ½". Find some ½" solid hardwood, such as maple, oak, ash etc. Cut one edge to match the curve of the channel. Cut the wood 'long' so that you will be making the channel pieces somewhat longer than needed. This will give you ends to trim & will assist in the forming. You might want to make the channel out of 5 pieces - one for the front edge and 2 each for the sides. It's easier to work with smaller pieces and weld them together.
I would probably make it out of 20 gauge steel, but 22 might be o.k. Aluminum could be used as well, but will be trickier to weld. It's best to copy the original material & thickness.

Cut the material into strips. Try not to cut the strips wider than will be needed as extra material will make stretching more difficult. You'll likely have to make a couple test pieces of short lengths to get the width right. You will actually hammer the strips over the buck to form the channel needed. The side legs of the channel will have to stretch significantly to allow the piece to curve. Steady, repeated hammering will achieve the stretching, but you may need to use some heat to help the metal move.

When the hammering, shrinking/gathering is complete, you will trim off the edges to get an even channel.

You mention the lip on the inside leg. If the lip bends inward, you will have to make a steel die that fits the inside of the channel you just made. The die need only be a couple inches long. You can weld a rod to it to use as a handle. Fit the die into the channel and hammer the 1/8" lip inward, over the die. You can hold the channel & die in a bench vise, moving it as you go along. For deeply curved sections, the die may need to be shorter. Again, it may take a couple of practice pieces to get it right.

This part was undoubtedly made on a machine that rolled it out originally. While you can get the plain channel made up in straight sections at any good sheet metal shop, curving it is very difficult. We've tried many times to form such pieces and have found that getting out the hammers & making hammer forms is the most efficient method. You can make a perfect part with a little bit if care and some clean-up with a file. Let the hammer & buck do the work, don't try to rush it. You can actually do a better job with a smaller hammer than a larger one - the smaller the better. It takes more time with a smaller one, but the metal will form more evenly.

If you want to undertake this, feel free to give me a call if you need any more help. I can let you talk to Jeff at the shop. Jeff does all the metal fab here - he's the one who taught it to me.

Tom

February 4, 2001

QUESTION: 1931 MAIN BEARINGS

Hi Tom,

I sent you a message through Frank recently concerning a 31 engine that had the main bearings and caps scattered. I have worked at rearranging the parts, but before I got them all sorted I came up with about .003 clearance on the few I had right. I had a 30 crankcase which really appears good, but the crank had been left to rust pretty badly. I decided to try the 31 crank in the 30 block since both main surfaces miked standard. When I plasti-guaged this combination I still read .003 on all 7 bearings. You had told me, as I know, the nearer I could get to .0015 my rods would really appreciate it. I can find noone in the Northwest who still do babbit and line bore. Is there any chance this thing would survive with these figures, or do you know who does still do the procedure. I imagine to ship and have work done would be spendy, but I am also concerned about time. I do have to have the rod journals turned, which could be done locally,. but also the rods checked and fitted with inserts. Do you have any suggestions to my dillema? I had hoped to come up with a usable lower end, but I really question doing the rest without taking care of the bottom.

Thanks Tom, Ron Bartlett

ANSWER: 1931 MAIN BEARINGS

Ron -

Does the crank spin freely with the 0.003 clearance? If so, then you can tighten the bearings some by shimming behind the insert. You should use tapered shim stock - thicker in the middle than the ends - some Napa stores still carry it. Once you add a shim behind an insert, plastigauge again. If the clearance did not change, then you must file the insert parting line - CAREFUL - once filed, they will never have the proper crush again without a shim, unless the cap is also filed. If you file too much, you may not have enough bearing crush and lose contact & heat transfer through the bearing into the main saddle.

Changing cranks is also a scary proposition. If the journals are extremely nice and the bearings are extremely nice and you get very even clearance AND it spins freely then it is possible to have a very long lasting bottom end. Meeting all these requirements is a bit of a long shot, however. I would be concerned that the journals are mismatched to the bearing enough that you might experience somewhat rapid wear early on until the surfaces get settled with eachother. If you already have 0.003", another thou might be more than you want, if you plan on driving the car any appreciable amount.

There are plenty of babbitt shops around, getting the inserts rebabbitted is no problem. As far as align boring, look for a shop that remanufactures large industrial & commercial truck engines, or any engine rebuilder, for that matter. I am sure there are a number of align bore machines in your area. They may, or may not have experience with a 7-main aluminum base engine like the Franklin.

You can always ship it to me if you wish. We can turn it around rather quickly. We also machine the rear seal housing for a modern lip seal as well as the timing cover housing when it's in the align bore machine.

New babbitt or not - don't forget to balance after turning the rod journals!
Let me know what you come up with.
tom

Starting here we are going to try something new. All question will be in BLUE and all answers will be in GREEN.

Subj: RE: 1932 Franklin Oxford Sedan
Date: 2/7/01 9:43:45 PM Central Standard Time

Tom,
If your patience holds out any longer, I have a few more questions which have come up.
-- Engine Exhaust manifold has surface rust. Is it AACA/CCCA acceptable to paint such parts with a high temp similar color paint ? Sidedraft manifolds were originally painted with hi-temp silver paint

-- Running boards have thick black strips on top of surface held down with metal end pieces. Some are held on with screw others have no screws. Are these strips correct and if so, should they be held by metal end caps with or without screws?? Original Ser. 16 Runningboards had chrome-plated metal channels with rubber inserts and chrome plated end caps. There is no readily available channel that duplicates the original. You can get aluminum channel from L&L (417-476-2871) and polish it. Jeff Hasslen has worked on a project to fabricate the original ends - you might try him to see if he has any available.

--Car is 3 shade of gray. Is black acceptable for the under carriage or should some of it be body color? 1932 chassis were painted black except for special order

--Any suggestion on a source for original type carpeting. An original piece found under the seat looks like a bristle type carpeting. Original carpet was wool pile. You can get proper Wilton wool carpet from Bill Hirsch 800-828-2061. Call and order samples of Wilton in the shades you want.

--should headliner ceiling liner and side liner be the same color material (or is the two tone effect in my car a result of sun fading) ? The headliner was usually the same color as the door panels and upper quarters in the case of broadcloth cars. The headliner was usually of a lighter weight material which resulted in uneven fading when compared to the heavier side panels. You cannot always get matching colors in different weights. Once again - call Bill Hirsch and order samples of wool broadcloth and pick whatever is closest.

--What type leatherette top insert material should the car have and how should it be tacked in ? How is best to insure no leakage? Long grain cobra is the closest available material. Once again - Bill Hirsch is the best source. Lebaron Bonney and Jenkins interiors also have these upholstery samples, but Hirsch has the biggest selection. Giving a course on top installation is not something that can be done easily in an e-mail, nor am I a qualified teacher. I can give a few ideas based on some of my experience however:
The biggest problem faced with those installing a new top is the wood structure underneath. If the wood is not in perfect condition, you will have difficulty tacking the material and having it hold well. Remove the old top first being very careful of the aluminum trim as you will have to reuse it. Remove the old top, padding & 'chicken wire' underlayment. The study all the wood carefully and replace any wood that is not in perfect condition. Replace the chicken wire and add new cotton batting.
Cut the new top so that it is only about 1" bigger all around than the channel in the wood that it tacks into. Tacking the top is a job that requires patience. Start with the front & back edges in the middle to establish a centerline. DO NOT SINK THE TACKS ALL THE WAY YET. Add tacks in the corners, pulling the material as taught as you reasonably can. Pull in between the middle and corners and add tacks. Continue adding tacks between the others, but again do not sink any yet.
What you will find is that you can pull out tacks you've already installed and pull the material tighter & re-tack. You need to continue this procedure until you cannot pull the material any tighter. At that point you can sink the tacks home. Add tacks so that they are placed every 1/2 inch, or so. You will need a lot of tacks and a good tack hammer. Upholsterers buy sterilized tacks and hold them in their mouths, spitting them onto the magnetized end of the tack hammer as they go along. If the top is not tight enough, it will loosen in the sun and billow while driving.
Trim the top material just beyond the tacks. Make sure all the aluminum trim is in good shape and reinstall it with silicone sealer under the trim. Don't be afraid to remove the top and start over. It's a fairly difficult procedure to master the first time around.
I've seen some people cut the top much bigger than the opening and hang weights all around the car to let the top stretch for a few days, then just tack it into place. It's difficult to pull evenly this way, in my opinion. The pros pull & tack, pull & tack. I would suggest you contact a professional for some advice before tackling the job. There are some other Club Members who have a lot of experience with tops and can help you.

Good Luck.

tom

February 14, 2001

QUESTION: 1903 PROBLEMS

Tom,

The weather here has finally warmed up enough to roll the '03 out onto the back deck and crank it up. I've done it twice so far running it about five minutes each time. It ran roughly but it ran. I may still have the timing off by one tooth; I can't seem to advance it far enough. But beyond that I have some observations and questions:

There seems to be a good bit of blowby around the rings as indicated by exhaust (I assume it's exhaust - white smoke in any event) coming out of the crankcase vent. Is that normal at this stage of the game? Will it improve as the new pistons become broken in?

I may have a problem with compression. Yesterday I checked all cylinders and got about 40 pounds on each. But today, when I first started the engine, the no. 4 exhaust stayed cold. Spark OK but compression was perhaps 20 psi. Also the no. 4 atmospheric inlet chattered rather than opening steadily on the suction stroke. This suggests a leak somewhere. So I tightened everything up (the exhaust cage may have been a bit loose) and started it again. This time I revved the engine more and no. 4 exhaust got hot. Tomorrow, I plan to recheck the compression on all cylinders again and if no. 4 still is still low, I plan to switch valves one at a time with another cylinder that has 'good' compression (if you call 40 psi 'good'). Any further thoughts?

Chuck Johnson

ANSWER: 1903 PROBLEMS

Chuck -

Glad it's running. You will see crankcase 'fumes' from the breather. While it will diminish somewhat as the rings fully seat, it will not go away as there is almost always some degree of blowby past the ring end gaps. Sometimes the gaps carbon up and everything seals perfectly, but don't expect it with aluminum pistons and new rings.

Did the compression come back after tightening things up? Between the valve cages and the silly intake manifold mounting, leaks are common. Usually tightening things will eliminate them, if all parts were carefully fitted initially. If you get a stinker that you just cannot find, try pressurizing the cylinder by screwing a fitting into the spark plug hole and putting an air chuck on it. You can pressurize the cylinder with the piston at TDC and listen for where the air leaks out. A little soapy water will show up lots of tiny leaks in a X-engine!

A step further is a differential pressure gauge set which actually read s in percent the amount of leakage. These generally are referred to as Leakdown Testers and give a more accurate picture than a compression gauge.

It will be another 6 - 7 weeks minimum before we even think of getting a car out. I'm starting to get back onto my 1911 G. My 3 year old has never ridden in it - for shame!
Keep me posted

tom

March 4, 2001

QUESTIONS: 1905 Franklin engine

Hi Tom,
Russ and I have been working on the engine for the Franklin tonight and have a few questions and comments for you:
1.) we are wondering about whether to use the cyl. jugs we have with the lower exhaust ports or purchase the new set from Jeff which we understand do not have the ports. What do you recommend? We understand if we use the jugs with the ports it is advisable to "pin" the rings to prevent the end gaps from ever aligning with the port. This was not done on the engine as we found it. First off - I'm not sure if Jeff has any cylinders left. But - if he does, anyone with a cross engine should very seriously consider purchasing a set. These cylinders can, and do suffer problems such as flange & base breakage and valve seat damage. They are irreplaceable. Jeff went to great expense to make a few sets and I seriously doubt he'll make them again.
As far as the port, no problem running the stock jugs, but it is a good idea to pin the rings. With a stock camshaft, you need the lower port anyway. If you block off the port, then the cam really should be modified to increase the exhaust valve duration. This gets the exhaust gasses out ore efficiently. The results are cooler running and more power. If you go that route, let me know as I have some specs for exhaust valve timing.
2.) What do you recommend for piston skirt to cyl wall clearance? We measured .005 - .007 on the engine as we found it. It depends on the piston you are using. For original iron, 0.005 - 0.007 is far beyond wear limits. It's really pretty far for aluminum as well. I had an NOS set of extremely light iron pistons for my '05 and set them at 0.002". I probably could have set them at 0.001, but chickened out. They were dead round and straight - no taper or cam. For aluminum, 0.0035 - 0.004 is what we the Plymouth piston to. It's #37P, by the way, and fits beautifully.
3.) We found a step in diameter between the ring land area and skirt of the piston of ~ .069". Is this normal? It seems like a lot. This is normal & proper.
4.) What would you recommend as a source for new pistons if we decide to replace them? We are looking at Plymouth pistons which are the same bore size but what about wrist pin size and location? See above. Keep in mind that you MUST bore cylinders when you have as much wear as you indicate. Boring is the only way to keep the cylinders true and square.
5.) The drive sprocket located between crankcase and transmission is worn and should be replaced. Do you know of a source for this? This one's a bugger. You can get a sprocket from Boston gear, but will have to machine a new hub and weld the sprocket to the new hub. The finished part must be heat treated or it will fail quickly. You can change the final ratio if you make up a sprocket. What is yours now - 9 tooth? A 10 tooth would give more speed, if that's what you want and feel you can pull it, What kind of chain do you have? Don't forget to match widths.
6.) The transmission shifting cone is badly worn (indented) where it contacts the adjusting bolt. Is this part available or should we repair or remake ourselves? Gotta make this one as well. It also must be case hardened to match the original.
Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
Mike and Russ

Good luck!

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

Hello Tom,

Thanks for your offer of assistance. It is obviously a great club and when things get tough down under in the antipodies, it gets very lonely.
I stole my Franklin from Phoenix, Arizona, driving it to LA via San Diego in '98 after sitting in a garage for 30 years.
After new leather interior and bare metal respray, it looks magnificent, however, a tell tale tap in the motor concerned me, especially as it is due to go on a rally with 2001 classic cars in our capital, Canberra, in mid April.
Last weekend we dropped the motor and gearbox from the car (encorporating many cuss words) and upon strip down found
1) 2 pistons EGGE + 40 oversize had at some stage seized and scoured the bore distorting both pistons (also scoured) and broke a bottom ring.
2) One con rod no 5 had bearing cap on back to front
3) Two bent push rods on no. 5 and rough repairs to two walking beam frames to bond many cracks.
3) Big end bearings started to crack up on no 1 and 2
4) Cam timing marks show chain out by one tooth
5) Crankshaft seemed ok but crack testing showed some surface heat cracks where grinding wheel had been forced against the side of the web reducing radius, still ok to use but bad workmanship possibly south of the border autos!
6) Main bearings had oil galleries drilled out by a butcher and possible shavings trapped caused a thread type scour on some bearings. In Australia we call this a bloody mess, however, we shall not be deterred.
My engine reconditioned is good and practical and may have come up with an idea suitable for series 11A and B rods. He intends to bore out the babbit and replace with shells from a 2 cylinder lister LD2 49.5 cu. in. ( 3 sets require and we have obtained them) from an ACL listing. One pair no 1B2561 std shaft 2.1245 in. - 2.1250 in. We will just remove the white metal without any con rod boring.
Tomorrow I will find out the exact size of pistons required (6) with rings. Could you please help me source these quickly?
Probably +60.
The valve springs go from 22lbs. to 32 lbs. and the valves, though poorly seated will be ok after refacing and seating. These are modern with split collets. If valve springs were obtainable I would love a set.
We will grind the cam to clean it up, cam bearings seem ok (I have straightened the push rods).
The clutch plate seems very good, however, it would be good to skim say .015in off the fyl wheel face. Do you know how far I can safely go on this?
The pressure plate, gearbox end, has 3 large cracks and many small ones. One is right through the lip and 1in long. Perhaps I will leave well alone as I am easy on clutches. What do you think?
The fan center was loose in the fabric causing a thump at low revs, sounded like a front main bearing, however, today I drilled out 4 opposing rivets, made some brass ones with interference fits, whacked them in and peened them into washers, seemed to do the trick.
That's about it for now. I thank you again for your attention. I will email you again tomorrow re piston size and hope you can assist. Also my thanks to Frank Hantak and Dan Rollyson.

Regards,
David Rundle
dyrestorations@aol.com

Hello again Tom

The 6 pistons I require for my Franklin will be +60 oversize, are they obtainable and if so can you help locate them? I am also organising for the local brake man to bond a new woven foot brake lining onto the band, rear of gearbox,could you advise the thickness required? On closer inspection the clutch pressure plate is a great headache, the cracks mentioned in my email are dangerous and opposite plus the fact the throw out race is far to tight to reuse,(I may have loaded it during an awkward removal of engine and gearbox) . Now I have discovered a crack opposite and on both sides of the cast central bush that locates the fingers.Big problems, Is it possible to obtain these parts new or 2nd hand in America, if so where? OTHERWISE Is it feazable for me to try to have a machine shop produce the 10 inch plate from steel (not cast iron) and mill in the location pieces. If machining is the best way do you know the plate face thickness?
I imagine the method of 1 bearing removal and 2central cast bush removal must be locking a special tool into the milled slots at each end and unscrewing, am I on the right track Tom if so right or left hand thread?
I hope you will have time to reply, and I trust I am not becoming a pest.
Would you know of any workshop manuals available from the club as I am certainly flying blind
Regards David Rundle

ANSWER: SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

Dear David -

As far as pistons go, they are available. When machined properly for the Franklin
, scoring is extremely rare, especially in the Ser. 11 engine. There are several choices for pistons, I will check out availability & cost & let you know early next week.

Valve springs are Sealed Power #VS511. They were common 12 years ago, very scarce today. They gave a 35 lb seat pressure. I'll ask around to see if they might be available anywhere.

On the rod bearings - I have tried unsuccessfully to install insert bearings in these rods. First off - I could not find a suitable insert. this insert you have found sounds interesting. What is the housing bore size for this bearing? The problem we had was that there was not a bearing thick enough to allow removal of all the babbitt. We did not feel that running an insert against old babbitt was a whole lot better than babbitt alone. The next step was to make bronze inserts that we could babbitt line. The problem here was that the rod bores are not consistent. The bore is also larger than the rod bolt spacing, resulting in rod bolts that have had some shank cut away while boring the rod for the insert. We did not overcome the difficulties in making inserts that were not 'custom machined' for each rod, so we gave it up. Re-babbitting is a bit tricky as it requires perfect tinning of the rod bore and sides - not easy with aluminum. We have been successful doing this, however, so if you are unable to make the inserts work, I'll run you through the babbitt process. If you do make the inserts work, PLEASE send a write-up for the rest of us. Don't forget the crank must be perfect to handle running inserts.

On the clutch, 0.015" is not problem on the flywheel face. Be sure you remove the same amount of material from the flywheel at the pressure plate mounting surface. You must maintain the same depth from the mounting lip to the flywheel surface.

On the pressure plate: The throw-out bearing will be locked when the pressure plate is removed from the flywheel. The pressure plate disassembles as follows:
Fabricate tooling from flat stock that will fit into the milled slots of the throwout bearing outer nut and the INNER LOCK NUT. I clamp a piece of flat stock in a bench vise, then lower the pressure plate over the tool until it engages the slots of the inner lock nut. Then using another suitable tool on top, loosen the throwout nut. Bear in mind, the inner nut is a lock nut only. Everything is right hand standard thread (at least standard on this side of the equator!) It may take a bit to break it free.
Once the nut has been 'unlocked' you will need to release the spring tension of the pressure plate to simply unscrew the throwout by hand. There are various methods for doing this, here's how I do it: Set the assembly on the floor, lowering in onto a block of wood of approximately 2x4x4. The block should contact the center shaft only, not the fingers or iron housing. I then place a knee on either side of the pressure plate and kneel down until the spring tension raises the throwout bearing enough to spin it off by hand. You could also bolt the assembly back up to the flywheel with the clutch disc in place - this will release the tension. Whatever works.

It sounds like you need a complete clutch housing and pressure plate - am I right? It should be possible to round one up, I will make some calls next week. If we find one, it will not be balanced to your engine. You will have to balance the crankshaft with eh clutch parts. This brings up the fan. It's good you repaired the center fabric. You should rebalance it as well. The ser. 11 runs quite smoothly when all is in balance.

Did I cover most? Let me know if not. I'll find out about pistons/rings and call on a clutch ASAP and get back to you early in the week.

QUESTION: 1928 WOOD FRAME/WIRE WHEELS

Thanks Tom,

Just for your info the "1928" sedan in New Hampshire has a serial number that would seem to put it right in the middle of the 12B series, yet it has a wood frame.... of course the data plate is mounted to the firewall with machine screws.....

You mentioned a "distinct wheel as in the 29..." the wheels on that car look about the same to me as the wires on our 30 sedan. You also said that "wires were definitely available" did you mean for the 12 series?

Thanks again for your time.

ANSWER: 1928 WOOD FRAME/WIRE WHEELS

Keith -

Maybe I mis-spoke, let's try again:

The 1928 Wire wheel is unique to 1928 and was not used on any later production Franklins. It used a heavy aluminum hubcap. The 1929's used a smaller pressed, chrome plated cap, the 1930 - 32 used a larger pressed, chrome plated cap.
There were two wheel sizes in 1928: 19" and 20".
The 19" wheel was used on all 12-7, or long wheelbase models. The 20" was used on the 12-5, or short wheelbase models. Wood and wire wheels were available in both sizes for Series 12-A and 12-B.
The smaller wheel was used on the longer cars to allow for a larger tire with greater load capacity.

All 12-5, short wheelbase models, had 3-piece, laminated wood frames. All 12-7, long wheelbase models had pressed steel frames, appearing for the first time on a Franklin.

Your touring car is a 1928 Series 12-B model 12-7 steel framed 19" wheel job - right?

If you put the sedan wire wheel on your touring car, you will be running a larger wheel which technically is not authentic, or correct, but looks quite nice.

This stuff is all off the top of my head and it's possible I got the wheel sizes mixed up. I'll go check my literature. If it's different, I'll get right back to you.
I hope I did not make things even more confusing.
tom

QUESTION: 1928 PURCHASE

To whom it may concern,

I found your email address on the Franklin Organization web page, and I
thought I would email a question to you; I hope that you do not mind. I was
curious if you could give me some assistance. I am looking to purchase an
unrestored 1928 12A Convertible which is mostly complete but disassembled.
It is missing a transmission and one wire wheel. I have never owned a
Franklin but before I take this on I was curious if it would be difficult to
find a transmission for this car? Also, is there any other critical
information that you feel I should ask about this auto prior to taking on
this project? I would appreciate any guidance that you could give to me.
Sincerely,
Scott Brooke

ANSWER: 1928 PURCHASE

Dear Scott -

The 1928 Franklin is a full Classic automobile with production around 7,000 cars. This has to be considered as pretty limited production, especially when considering Ford could build a million cars in the same time frame. As such, parts are not so easy to come by. Having said that, the 1928 transmissions can be turned up now and then, usually from a car someone has parted out. I would not be afraid of a purchase due to a missing transmission, but would expect quite a few letters and phonecalls to find one. The wire wheel is actually more difficult. It's an item that rusts, bends or breaks. They were an option, not standard equipt. They are desireable. I would say you could find one, but it you might need to look during the entire restoration before one turns up and be willing to travel to swap meets around the country. Now that I think of it, I've never seen a 1928 wheel at a swap meet, but I was never looking.

As far as things to look for, mainly you want to know how complete the car is. You must assume that it will need 100% restoration. You can see what it will need by looking, but what's missing is an unknown, so try to list what's not there.

The wood frame is important. If it shows any signs of weakness or rot, you should figure on replacement. Sag is another problem, but hard to measure on a disassembled 1928 with drop-center frame. Excessive sag may call for a new frame.

The engine is a marvelous bit of engineering and they perform extremely well. But they are complex and require quite a bit more time & cost over a water-cooled six.

Pretty much everything else is just like another car of the smae vintage, in terms of items to look at.
Aluminum body panels can be somewhat more costly than steel to repair & refinish due to special skills and techniques.

Look things over very closely, make lists and ask many questions. Let me know what you come up with.
Sincerely,
Tom Rasmussen

QUESTION: SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

3/21/01
Tom,
More on Series 11 and insert bearings... In the John Burns column of ACN # 32, October 1963 (p.29) for which Bill Gewand was the Technical Editor, Don Kitchin describes in detail the procedure for adapting the 1954 Pontiac Six Clevite Bearing #CB417 for his Series 135. Two issues later in ACN #35, October 1964, (p. 25) Chape Condit writes in to say that this same Pontiac bearing can be used also on the Series 11B, 12A and 12B. Bill Gewand was still the Technical Editor and I think that his Series 11 either has a rod with this insert bearing or he carries a spare with one...not sure. At any rate for what it's worth, apparently this bearing could be used on the Series 11 so perhaps other inserts that are adaptable for the later engines can also be adapted for the Series 11?
Best regards...
Tom Annas.

ANSWER: SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

Tom -

The problem with the Ser 12 and earlier rods is that the babbitt was thicker, meaning the housing bore in the rod is larger. The Pontiac Bearing is too small on the O.D. to fit a Ser 11 or 12. I think Chape assumed they would fit since the journal size was the same.

For the Ser. 12, there was a Buda engine bearing that fit very well. It is now obsolete, pretty much impossible to find. We have since found a Wisconsin engine bearing CB-579P that fits well.

On the Ser. 11, the babbitt was thicker yet. There is no insert known that will fit. We have tried to make bronze backed inserts, but the rod bolts are spaced closer together and the bolt shanks actually protrude into the housing bore. Tolerances were very loose on the housing bore size because the factory knew babbitt was going into the rods and would be machined later. To put inserts in a Ser. 11 one would need to first bore the housings true, using a set of bolts with scallops cut out of the shanks. Then make insert shells and groove the back sides to allow for bolt shank clearance, then babbitt the shells & finally bore. It certainly could be done, but we've had very good luck re-babbitting Ser 10 & 11 rods.

David Rundle in Australia is working on fitting inserts to his 11-B rods right now. I'm eager to hear how it works out. He, or I will report later.

Thanks for the discussion points!

tom

QUESTION: MORE ON THE SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

Tom.
I have read the latest FAQs so I thought an update would be in order.
My knowledge is limited so I hope you can understand my explanation.
( 1 ) Rod bolts obtained were A. R. P. ( automotive racing products ) of California part no. 154-6003 suit ford 351 cleveland
( 2 ) Lister engine bearings returned as tunnel size 2.270 not good enough.
( 3 ) New bearings A. C. L. brand have just been manufactured in Tasmania, Australia and are on the way up to us.
These suit a Daihatsu diesel truck of 2.765 ccs year 87- 93 part no. 4B1426 . Shaft size 2.1648 Tunnel size 2.2835.
All rods are pre bored awaiting bearings then we will finish bore to suit.
Std bearing sizes .25, .50, .75, 1.00,1.25, ( 1.50 )
1.50 = .060 therefore 2.164 minus .060 = 2.104 the ground shaft finished size.
I am posting copies of spec. sheets plus a sample rod bolt to you at 8080 Central Av. N. E. Spring Lake Park M. N. 55432,
I hopa this is your current Odyssey address
The Daihatsu bearing is thinner however its material code is way above whitemetal being F780 trimetal , sintered copper lead,lead plated steel backed, nominal composition 74% copper 24% lead 2% tin, specs in mail.
I have taken photos of pre-bored rods, showing bolt breakthrough and in the case of one rod, drillings to key babbitt metal, also photos of block with new babbitt bearings and oil grooves after final line boring cut. I will post these later when the film is develloped.
Tom, with our dollar hovering around 49 U.S. cents you should open up an Odyssey branch in Sydney, ( only joking ) restoration is hard the world over (but so interesting ). I am so impressed by your vast knowledge of Franklin and I dare say many other vehicles, to me you have represented the embodiment of John Burns.
Tell me when you require the piston , ring , and clutch money.
Incidentally Tom , can you tell me the aproximate thickness of the gasket material between the jug and the block?
See you later mate. Regards David Rundle.

ANSWER: MORE ON THE SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

David -

Great info. Why didn't I think if having bearings machined in Tasmania? What's wrong with me!?

I anxiously await photos. To solve the Ser. 11 rod bearing issue would be great. I had not found an ARP bolt to work on an aluminum rod - What did you do about the bolt breakthrough? How wide is the Dihatsu bearing?

The clutch is soaking in penetrant, I've gotten the pressure plate off and cleaned up. When I pop the housing apart, I will blast it and paint it so customs will never have a reason to suspect it came from a farm.

My wife and I have dreamed of taking a year in Australia, with the kids, and find someone who wanted a restoration done. Great education for the kids. It certainly would not likely be on a Franklin - too few around, I suspect. Fun to dream.

I had word today that the pistons were shipped to me today. I should have them by weeks end, need to give them a check and then will try to get pistons/springs & clutch out to you mid-next week.

tom

QUESTION: MORE ON THE SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

Tom -
Diane posted the bolt and specs yesterday so I will devellop the film today and post it to you.
We talked about rod breakthrough, a hardened washer under the head would be fine however there is no room unless we fly cut into the side of the rod . I dont like the idea of weakening the rod further so we decided to against that.
The bolts oval head limits the contact area with the rod in comparison to the origional bolt, however the ARP bolt is superior in tensile strength. The ends or wings of the oval would be unlikely to shear as they are similar to a common swedish childs automotive safety seat bolt used here in the 80 s , but your concern may be the bolt head pulling through the aluminium.
Unfortunately, our compromises may include this risk, but to guard against it we intend pulling the bolt to around 30 lbs or less and using a drop of loctite on the thread.I am so concerned about these bearings that I have instructed Parrys ( the engine rebuilders, great blokes too ) that we will attatch our jugs on the work bench to the block rather than my origional plan to slip the block back into the car from underneath, attaching the jugs later.
To do this I have positioned the car on rear wheel ramps with the front wheels on the floor, removed the chassis cross brace to allow forward entry of hired engine crane.I will probably attatch the gearbox minus lever and top plate. When in place I will attatch sump from underneath.
We will also lightly linish all marks off the rods before assembly to remove potential weak points.
The Daihatsu bearings are narrower than the origionals 1.082 " wide however the stronger diesel bearing and trimetal material have satisfied Parrys, also the modern thinner slipper bearing should have less tendancy to compact under load than the thick babbitt used in series 11 bearings, do you agree?
Thank you for the clutch preparation,this foot and mouth outbreak would be devistating if it came to our island.
I just phoned Parrys to tell them of the piston E. T .A. great news.

ANSWER: MORE ON THE SERIES 11 ENGINE AND OTHERS

David -

I have the same concern about the ARP bolt - the underhead surface area being a bit small. I wonder of you could make washers to go under it? The 30# torque is fine, but bear in mind that 30 - 35 is max for these rods anyway, or bore distortion results.

Maybe the ARP is the way to go, as these bolts are always bad - bad threads, stretched, etc. Washers would be nice, however. I agree that milling the pad wider would detrimentally weaken the rod in its most vulnerable point.

As far as bearing width - modern inserts certainly have far higher load capacity. I like to keep the widths as close as possible, however, mainly due to the lower oil pressure and volume. It's interesting that a modern V/8 can pump 500 Horsepower from a bearing that's only 5/8" wide, yet if we try to put an insert in a Packard that is only 0.100" narrower than the original, they tend to wear very quickly with alarming failure rates. These are on cars that are being driven at highway speeds for extended miles.

I don't think the narrower rod on the Ser. 11 will be such a concern though - it's hard to push these cars very hard. 45 - 50 is max cruise in a Ser. 11.

I've got the clutch soaking still. Inner lock nut finally yielded, now I've got to break free the main nut. As I said, it was a bit rusty. You would have had to go through the same work, so I guess we're not losing much time. I've got the clutch tools as well. It will be a lot easier for you to put together than it has been to take apart. I'll stay on it today, still plan on being able to ship all parts midweek.

We'll stay in touch.

tom

QUESTION: 1928 12A PLUG WIRES

hi tom, this is glenn blaze from new jersey,
a few months back you gave me advice on my
spark plug wire replacement, i bought a roll of
wire, new plugs, and boots but i am having an extreme
amount of trouble getting the wires out of that tube or shield
that runs around the engine, much less the problem of how
to feed the new wires to the plugs. your expert advice would
br greatly appreciated.
thank you, glenn

ANSWER: 1928 12A PLUG WIRES

Hi Glenn -

You sure picked a bugger of a task for your Spring project!

If you're having a hard time getting the old wires out, you're really not going to enjoy putting the new ones in. Usually the old wires will slide out fairly easily, because the tube is full of oil from the valvetrain. Sometimes, on an engine that sat for many years, it's possible that the tube, or channel is rusty inside. If that's the case, it can be hard to get the new wires to smoothly go through.

If it is rusty, or packed with grease, try to clean it somehow once the old wires are out. Maybe you can push a wire brush through it or some similar cleaning method.

New wires go in 1 at a time from the distributor end. Start with #1, feed it to the end and fish it out of the hole with a small, sharp hook that you can 'harpoon' it with. I use a dental pick. Leave several inches on each end extra, which will aid in pulling the next wire through.

Try fishing #2 next. As you push on #2, you can tug back and forth on #1 to aid in pulling #2 through. Keep going until you can see the end of #2 through the hole at the end, then use the pick again.

Now you can pull on #1, or #2, or both to help fish #3 through.

It gets harder as you go toward #6, but you have far less to go. Liberal use of water seems to help as a lube. A bit of dish soap can help also.

It's not fun to do this in the car, but if the channel is clear, it can be done.

You might try to reverse the process to remove the old wires - start with #6 and try to get some back & forth pulling from an adjacent wire to help it through.

Good Luck - I hope your car rewards you with smooth running!

tom

May 1, 2001

QUESTION: CROSS-FIRING

Dear Mr. Webmaster:
There is this problem that I've not seen addressed either in old ACN's , on the Website or in the Service Station: It is inductive cross-firing among the spark plug wires when encased as the Factory did in the looms, particularly on side-draft engines. Has a way been found to eliminate this problem? The only way that works is to keep the spark plug wires outside the loom; but that's not the Factory's' design. One can't help wondering: why didn't they have the same problem?

ANSWER: CROSS-FIRING

Tony -

Good question - about the cross-firing. On just about every Franklin I've fussed with, one can occasionally see small arcs between the plug wiring loom & loom bracket. If you touch these arcs, you feel nothing. I've never experienced running problems as long as the plug wires were in good condition. Some of the fabric covered wires are of lesser quality than others - I've seen the rubber cook & ooze out through the fabric - yet still the car ran well. Perhaps the voltage in our systems is low enough - likely 20,000v or less, that actual cross-firing does not happen?
I've always used fabric covered for all Ser. 12 & earlier, solid core, non resistor wire for later - never a problem. Are you experiencing a crossfire that is affecting performance?

Just did some fussy valve guide work on the 153 today, ready for another summer. I sure love those Michelin tires!

av
tom

May 9, 2001

AUSSIE UPDATE

Tom

I called into Parrys yesterday to check progress and was immediately put to work on a bench producing gaskets and general preparation towards assembly.
The jugs are ground and honed, balancing of crank, fan, flywheel, pressure plate assembly, successfully completed.
The boys are now fitting a modern rear main bearing seal, this will require .010 " off shaft end to clean up marks, plus machining of the detachable end plate to accept bearing O.D..
. They will obtain two seals, remove the spring rings, cut both in half to allow assembly in end plate with interference fit, then attach a fabricated banana shaped steel retainer, locked in with a small screw to clamp both halves together.
As I type they are working on a modern front seal and will lightly clean up the fan spiggot for an oil tight closure.
I will attach the sump and the jugs while on the bench to complete motor closure, attach generator to gain correct chain tension, then transport the motor home .
As I have removed the forward brace and placed the rear wheels on ramps to allow entry from above, do you think it best to insert motor with gearbox attached ( with the lever and selector plate removed) in one operation ,or would you fit the gearbox as a second operation, bearing in mind that I will be using a hired hand pump hydraulic crane rated at aprox. 1000lbs ?
Looking forward to your suggestion.
Regards David.

PS. the slipper bearings even look origional, lets hope they work as well.

Dear David -

Sounds like work is progressing well. It's nice to have modern front & rear seals. With the front seal, be sure you install a seal sleeve on the fan hub or it will tear up the new seal. The split rear seal idea is a good one as well. On the later engines, we've been able to find split lip seals that required no modification. The Ser. 11 is a different animal, however. There are split seals out there with a groove in the backside that allows them to straddle the seal housing. If you cannot find one like this for the Series 11, then your idea is the next best method.
As far as engine installation, I've always found it easier to install the engine with the front mount in place, as it's difficult to install on an assembled engine. With the steering gear installed, leave the transmission for later. If you remove the steering gear, then install the engine/trans as a unit. For what it's worth, I find it easier to put the trans in later - removing the steering column always opens up a can of worms with the steering wheel & hand controls/horn etc. A hydraulic hoist and a helper is all you need. It takes a bit of patience to get around the steering column, otherwise it's not too bad of a job.

Sounds like you'll be running before long - good luck! Don't forget to break in those new pistons very carefully.
Regards -

Tom

May 14, 2001

QUESTION: 1902/03 ENGINE

Dear Tom,
Don't know whether Jeff told you about the cross engine we recently
acquired. We sent him a picture via Internet but never got a response as
to whether he was able to open it. The car is in the Register and had
been in storage (dry) for about 50 years. It had been modified
extensively in the 20's and titled in 1927 as a "Rebuilt 1902 Serial #
161." (We have yet to find the serial number).

It is our plan to do only a basic mechanical restoration, drive it
around the block, and then let some more energetic person do the rest of
the restoration. I have been in almost daily touch with Chuck Johnson
and he has provided much valuable info from his '03 familiarity and the
differences between the '03 and the '04. We recently discovered a
significant differences between his car and mine and wondered if you
might be able to shed some light on it.

There are three main bearing stanchions in the engine. In Chuck's
each has a cap; in mine only the center one has a cap. My outboard ones
thus only provide support for a downward force. (That may be all that's
necessary.) Also the parts book (Price List) only shows a "Cap for
Center Base Bearing". My two outer "bases" or stanchions are identical
to the center one and appear to have cap screws in the holes. Do you
know which is correct or recall what Richard Harry's looked like? I
would like to avoid making bearing caps if they are not necessary but
would be concerned running the engine without them if they are supposed
to be there.

This is a low priority project at the moment as we are in the midst
of repainting the Series 7 and trying to get the '04 and the '29 ready
for the Westrek. We just finished installing a starter on the 1912 using
a 116 tooth Cadillac flex plate bolted to the clutch and driven by a GM
starter bolted to the frame. A 1964 12 volt Corvair battery just fits in
the running board box that holds the propane tank. Will send pictures if
you are interested.
Chet

ANSWER: 1902/03 ENGINE

Chet & Marlene -

I heard about the new acquisition - Congratulations, a very exciting discovery!

Interesting about the main bearing caps. When we opened up Richard Harry's '04 (#510) we found the same thing. My thought then was "how odd that someone would leave two main bearing caps off." His also had the same supports, with threaded holes in place for caps.

After thinking over your situation, it starts to make sense that Franklin might have left the caps off #'s 2 and 4 as there would be little tendency towards anything other than downward force. The camshaft, after all has only a bottom half bearing in the center on all X-engines, doesn't it? With the parts book listing only one cap, it becomes pretty convincing, albeit uncomfortable.

We were not thrilled about leaving two mains without caps on Richard's, so we made new caps. I think they might have been caps that Peter Kunan had made for the '05's some years back. It is not likely that running without caps would create major problems, as long as the mains are all in excellent condition. Loose bearings, on the other hand, may lead to possible vibration problems??? I hope to get the chance to pull the front cover off Richard Harry's '02/'03
to see what's in there.

What's in your '04? Do the main caps look like recent castings? Are they solid babbitt? You may recall that the '05's had 3 caps, cast from solid babbitt.

I guess I wouldn't worry about it for now, if your mains check out good. But for hard running, I would certainly want to have caps on all the mains.

The starter installation on the '12 sounds neat. Send me a photo if you have an extra.

I'll not make the Westrek again this year. I have some meetings in NYC I cannot get out of. I hated to miss last year, now this. Well, there's always next year.

Av
tom

QUESTION: 1928 12A VALVES

hi tom, success, the job was a little bugger as you told me but it
is now complete and running much better. also did cap, rotor, points.
i was on the Franklin website reading some of the technical advice and came upon
a very interesting article on the valve guide issue where the one fellow wrote how his car would get up to 45 mph or so and get tinny temporary knocking sound in the engine along with loss of power and how this was related to the valve guides.
this has been an ongoing problem in my 28 12a since i have owned it.
what parts, if any does your shop have available for me to purchase so i can tackle this problem. let me know
and once again thank you for your sound advice, Glenn blaze

Glenn -

ANSWER: 1928 12A VALVES

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I'm glad the wires worked. It's not a fun job, as you now know!

If you suspect valve guide trouble, the best diagnostic tool is a vacuum gauge. They are available at most good auto parts stores, or try to borrow one. It's convenient to tap into the vacuum connection at the wiper motor - then drive the car and watch the gauge. If the valves start to hang up, the gauge will fluctuate erratically, even before you hear any noise.

If this is the case, there are a couple things to try.
What kind of oil are you using on the valves?
How often do you oil them?
Do you know anything about the history of the engine before you got it?

Sometimes the valves will stick because they are carboned up from using petroleum-based oil. You should use synthetic oil, or two-cycle oil only. Franklin originally used motor oil diluted with something close to kerosene to keep carbon deposits from developing on the valves. This mixture works, but does not lubricate well. Synthetic oil seems to work the best. Marvel Mystery Oil also seems to work, but does not have the lubrication qualities that Two-cycle oil, or Synthetic oil does.

If it's not oil related, then the guides are simply too tight, or of the wrong design. Replacement bronze, or bronze sleeved guides should be relieved at the bottom of the guide for approx. 1/2" or they will get tight and stick at this point.

Check it out and let me know what you find.

Tom

July 7, 2001

QUESTION: CYLINDER COLOR

Tom

been trying to catch you What is the correct finish-color on the Iron parts of the enginge Clyinders ,exhaust ect

MIKE

ANSWER: CYLINDER COLOR

Mike - probably were never finished at all. I have used a cast iron gray - hi temp. My choice product is no longer available, was Kal-Guard header -Kote, made for motorcycles, had good heat transfer properties. Eastwood makes a nice cast iron color, but it's a bit thick. Spray for best results. Valve cages had ground stanchions, I'm not sure why, but they look great painted with a semi-gloss hit-temp. I believe the jugs and exhaust was originally bare.

Glad to hear you're working on it.

tom

July 7, 2001

QUESTION: AUSSIE UPDATE

Tom
I called into Parrys yesterday to check progress and was immediately put to work on a bench producing gaskets and general preparation towards assembly.
The jugs are ground and honed, balancing of crank, fan, flywheel, pressure plate assembly, successfully completed.
The boys are now fitting a modern rear main bearing seal, this will require .010 " off shaft end to clean up marks, plus machining of the detachable end plate to accept bearing O.D..
. They will obtain two seals, remove the spring rings, cut both in half to allow assembly in end plate with interference fit, then attach a fabricated banana shaped steel retainer, locked in with a small screw to clamp both halves together.
As I type they are working on a modern front seal and will lightly clean up the fan spiggot for an oil tight closure.
I will attach the sump and the jugs while on the bench to complete motor closure, attach generator to gain correct chain tension, then transport the motor home .
As I have removed the forward brace and placed the rear wheels on ramps to allow entry from above, do you think it best to insert motor with gearbox attached ( with the lever and selector plate removed) in one operation ,or would you fit the gearbox as a second operation, bearing in mind that I will be using a hired hand pump hydraulic crane rated at aprox. 1000lbs ?
Looking forward to your suggestion.
Regards David.

PS. the slipper bearings even look origional, lets hope they work as well.

ANSWER: AUSSIE UPDATE

Dear David -

July 7, 2001

QUESTION: VALVE GUIDES 12A

hi tom, success, the job was a little bugger as you told me but it
is now complete and running much better. also did cap, rotor, points.
I was on the Franklin website reading some of the technical advice and came upon
a very interesting article on the valve guide issue where the one fellow wrote how his car would get up to 45 mph or so and get tinny temporary knocking sound in the engine along with loss of power and how this was related to the valve guides.
this has been an ongoing problem in my 28 12a since I have owned it.
what parts, if any does your shop have available for me to purchase so I can tackle this problem. let me know
and once again thank you for your sound advice, Glenn blaze

ANSWER: VALVE GUIDES 12A

Glenn -

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I'm glad the wires worked. It's not a fun job, as you now know!

If you suspect valve guide trouble, the best diagnostic tool is a vacuum gauge. They are available at most good auto parts stores, or try to borrow one. It's convenient to tap into the vacuum connection at the wiper motor - then drive the car and watch the gauge. If the valves start to hang up, the gauge will fluctuate erratically, even before you hear any noise.

If this is the case, there are a couple things to try.
What kind of oil are you using on the valves?
How often do you oil them?
Do you know anything about the history of the engine before you got it?

Sometimes the valves will stick because they are carboned up from using petroleum-based oil. You should use synthetic oil, or two-cycle oil only. Franklin originally used motor oil diluted with something close to kerosene to keep carbon deposits from developing on the valves. This mixture works, but does not lubricate well. Synthetic oil seems to work the best. Marvel Mystery Oil also seems to work, but does not have the lubrication qualities that Two-cycle oil, or Synthetic oil does.

If it's not oil related, then the guides are simply too tight, or of the wrong design. Replacement bronze, or bronze sleeved guides should be relieved at the bottom of the guide for approx. 1/2" or they will get tight and stick at this point.

Check it out and let me know what you find.

Tom

July 7, 2001

QUESTION: CROSS ENGINE PISTONS

After the engion cools, it feels perfectly normal. It turns freely, starts and runs normally and generally feels great. But, then, after a time it stops very suddenly. After is has stopped, it becomes very stiff to crank until it has cooled off some,

My thoughts are these. Could I have gotten the ring clearance wrong? I thought I followed your instructions to the letter but maybe I screwed up. Could it be that the aluminum pistons that are causing the problem? Does the problem involve only one cylinder or more than one? When I take it apart, will the location and nature of the problem be obvious?

I will not touch the car again until after July 1 so any ideas you have would be most help

ANSWER: CROSS ENGINE PISTONS

Chuck -

My first thought was ring clearance. I did this once on my first sidedraft rebuild almost 20 years ago. Made it about a mile, gave it a bit of gas and "screeeech!" - stopped faster than a seized piston. In just a few minutes, I could start again and drive another block, or two and then "screeech!" That was when I learned about shallow ring grooves in old pistons.

It also could be a piston. Generally, if it's a piston, after it cools, you'll feel
the rings scraping the transferred aluminum from the cylinder walls as you slowly turn the crank.

#5 main bearing seizure is another problem in new x-engines. This generally stays stiff after cooling. I don't think you replaced this bushing recently though, did you? Isn't it still the one we put in years back?

I think I would pull some valve cages and do a visual inspection of the cylinder walls. Maybe it's only one and you'll be able to spot it with a peek down the hole.

Enjoy the Westrek - I can't believe I'm missing another one! I've got too many irons in the fire right now.

av

tom

MORE ON THE CROSS ENGINE PISTONS

Tom:

Well, the first big test of the "new" engine was not successful. I took it to the HCCA
1- and 2-cylinder tour in Niagara Falls and things did not go well. When the engine got really hot, it seized and stopped quite suddenly.

Here is the history. Before I took it on the tour, I had run it here about a dozen times on increasingly long runs up to about 7-8 miles each. It seemed to be running very well, but I never really got it hot. At the tour, I ran the first morning about 21 miles before lunch with about a one hour stop in the middle for a museum visit. After lunch I ran it about 10 miles before the stoppage occurred. Allowing the engine to cool a while, it easily restarted but then seized again very shortly. Overnight the same thing happened, easy start but seizure after only a few miles (I was taking my grandson to a local hospital for some emergency care and it almost got there.) After that, I packed it away and we were passengers for the rest of the tour.

Incidentally, the Niagara Falls area is very flat and free of hillls and I was intentionally travelling very slowly. I thought this would be a very gentle place to continue the break-in process.

What do I do now?

I'm off to the WesTrek at Lake Tahoe on Monday (it is now Saturday morning) and I will not even look at it until my return. I know I will be eager to get into it when I get back so If you could give me some instructions for what to do and what I can expect to find, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks for any help.

Chuck Johnson

Chuck -

I just got back from 5-days off myself, cannot make the Westrek, have to be in NYC Wed-Sat.

That's disappointing news about the x-engine.
We have experienced zero problems with those Plymouth pistons. After it cools, is it completely free, or is there some residual stiffness?

Enjoy the Westrek and get back to me with more info.

tom

July 8, 2001

QUESTION: CRACKS IN ENGINE CRANK CASE

Hi Tom ,
I have attached a picture that I hope will help explain my problem.
There are some hairline cracks on the intake side of the crank case of my 11A and they seem to be getting worse. I have open the engine this weekend but I have not checked the main bearings yet. Every thing seems to be turning with minimum friction. No grits in the bottom of the pan etc.
Have you seen these cracks before. I am told that the aluminum crankcase can be welded easily. Any recommendations as to how to do this (and before the Trek in August!)
Thank you Andre

ANSWER: CRACKS IN ENGINE CRANK CASE

Hi Andre -

Those cracks simply must be pattern markings. With the number of them and the locations, running vertically like that, the case would likely have broken to pieces by now.

I just looked at a Series 11 case we have at the shop and it does not have such pronounced markings. I have seen these on many other engines, however, just not nearly as pronounced as you describe and the photos show.

Clean the case very carefully inside. If the cracks show on the inside, then you need another crankcase. The amount of welding required, followed by the amount of machining required to true the case again would be far more costly that replacing and rebuilding another bottom end.

Let me know what you find after cleaning.

tom

July 8, 2001

QUESTION: GENERATOR, A GROUP OF QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Hi Tom, I'm having a problem with my generator on my 28 12A. It's only putting out about 6.1 volts, not enough
to burn headlights. Is the generator gear, belt, or chain driven. Also there appears to be small wire wrapped
resistors over the brushes that are nothing like any of the rest of the old vehicles that I own. I really don't want to pull the generator and find that I have to disassemble the front of the car to put it back together. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
I grew up in Cazenovia and have been to many of the treks but waited to buy a franklin until I moved to Arizona. I went to the Tuscon museum and talked to Frank and promptly bought my 28 Coupe.

Thanks.... Monte Colucci, Paulden, AZ

Dear Monte,

You sure made it a long drive to the Trek!

What kind of amperage is it putting out at this voltage? Have you tried a 3rd brush adjustment?

I'm not sure what kind of brushes you are referring to. The original generator for the '28 is an Owen-Dyneto with a cutout mounted on top. There are a great many reasons for low voltage - what condition is the battery? Wiring - condition, connections?
My experience has been that the Owne-DYneto's are quite reliable, but certainly internal problems can occur. I might suggest you carefully check the 3rd brush adjustment, battery condition & connections before removing & servicing.

The generator is driven by the timing chain. When removing the generator, it is very important that the timing chain not be disturbed, or you may end up pulling apart the front of the car.

Look closely and note that the generator is mounted to an aluminum plate which is mounted to the crankcase. The bottom of the plate has a stud which faces back - the generator fits over this stud and is held by a nut. This nut may be removed, along with the two bolts at the top of the generator.

There is also a stud which faces forward, goes through the crankcase and is retained by a nut. This is the nut you must not remove. The plate must stay in place as it retains the sprocket which locates the chain.

The generator has a splined shaft which engages the inside of the drive sprocket. You can slide the generator rearward and out of the car. You may need to loosen the support screw which protrudes from the side of the crankcase and gives support to the generator body.

When adjusting the timing chain tension, you loosen, but do not remove, the forward nut on the generator mounting plate, as well as the top bolts. This allows you to swing the generator in and out, effecting chain adjustment. There should be approx. 3/8" to 1/2" up and down play in the chain, as measured through the inspection plug above the generator.

Let me know what you find!

tom

Hi Tom, You asked as to what my ammeter reads. It doesn't. It is stuck on a full 30 charge. I would guess
that someone jumped the car with 12 volts and ruined the meter. We put a meter in the system and it just
barely moves off center even when the battery is low. Do you know of any one that might have an nos meter
or a good used one. It was broken when I received the car and the seller didn't tell me about it. I bought this
car sight unseen and it had some problems that I didn't expect. Pictures do not tell a true story.

Thanks...... Monte

Monte -

The first thing you need is an ammeter. I may have one, will look this weekend.

Any kind of ammeter will do to set the charging rate. Move the adjustable 3rd brush in the direction of rotation to increase charging rate.

You really should have a working ammeter to do this as too high a rate will quickly cook the battery.

I'll see if I can find something.

tom

Hi Tom, Your right, I've made a very long drive to the trek. for 20 years, it was two miles and now its 2550.
We do plan on coming back with the 28 for the Aug. 02 trek. Don't know if we will drive or trailer the car but
do plan on being there. We still have family in Caz.

The generator is a Delco Remy so has apparently been changed in years past. It does have the cutout on top. The guy I bought the car from has very little knowledge of the history of the car and the man that restored it is deceased. The battery is new and a large six volt and is fully charged. I can drive the car for several days without noticing a major drop in the battery but when the lights are used. it goes down quickly. We've checked the cutout switch and it seems to be ok. I used a mirror to check the brushes on the crankcase side and they appear to be ok The armature is clean but the wiring looks a little shakey.

I guess I'll remove the generator as per your instructions. I was concerned that the sprocket would drop when the generator was removed.

Your help is greatly appreciated. This is one fantastic website. Will you be coming out to the opening of the
Tucson Museum?

Thanks...... Monte

Have you tried to adjust the 3rd brush to raise the current? What does the ammeter read under normal driving?

The Delco unit has a thermostatic resistor in the field circuit which lowers the charging rate at the generator heats up - this gives higher charge rates for warm-up. The device is visible through the brush ports, is a flat mica with resistance wire wrapped around it, near the field fuse. You should be able to check lots of these things without having to pull the unit out.

tom

July 26, 2001

QUESTION: OIL AND FILTER

My name is Oliver Houck, I have been a Club Member since last year
IM from Pennsylvania, Wilkes-Barre area. I have a 1932 Franklin
L11 16A I want to know what kind of oil is used in an oil change, also where can I get and what kind of oil filter do I use?
Thank You
Oliver

ANSWER: OIL AND FILTER

Dear Oliver,

Welcome to The Club. The '32 was certainly one of Franklin's finest. Treat it well and you should have a lot of fun with that car.

A name brand 10W-30 on a good, clean engine in good condition is fine. 10W-40 is better if the engine might be a bit worn. I tend to stay away from the heavier weights such as 20W-50. I've found the oil temps actually run significantly hotter with the heavier weights.

If your engine is in tip-top shape, consider running 100% synthetic oil. I use Mobil 1, mostly, but have also used Castrol & Pennzoil. Pennzoil has a 5W-50 that kind of covers all bases. Otherwise Mobil's 15W-50 has been my choice. 15W-50 in synthetic does not run remotely as hot as a 20W-50 mineral based oil.

Some will say synthetic is overkill. I'd have to say they're probably right, but I like it. It makes me feel better knowing I've got a safety margin greater than with a standard mineral oil. The '32 engines are capable of some serious torque, as well as serious heat, especially when out-of tune. Older piston designs tend to scuff readily if abused. Synthetic oil seems to help.

Don't use it in a brand new engine - allow 1,000 miles, or so, for the rings to seat first. If you have reason to believe the engine has been running old, non-detergent oil, then you should drop the oil pan and clean out the pan and crankcase, then switch to detergent oil & change after 50 miles, then another 100 miles, then 500 miles. It's suicide to put detergent oil into an old dirty engine. Sometimes you get away with it, but believe me, I've done it and lost the bet!

For an oil filter - go to NAPA and get their #1035 filter. These have a check valve inside, and are not externally marked. Be certain you install it the right way or it will not flow any oil. These are a by-pass filter only and should last 10,000++ miles.

Good luck!

Sincerely,
Tom Rasmussen

QUESTION: FAN SHROUD COLOR

Tom,
I am getting ready to start work on my 1925 Series 11 Doctors Coupe. I am wondering about the proper color paint to use on the fan shrouding and the large cover over top of the engine. I also own a restored 1925 Series 11A Enclosed Drive Limousine and its shrouding in gloss black -- the same as the fenders (since it was restored by Harrah's I feel fairly confident it is correct). The Doctors Coupe is pumpkin orange body with medium brown fenders and the engine shrouding is also the same medium brown.

Was engine shrouding always black on Series 11 or was it actually supposed to match the fender color ??

Thanks,
Randy Still
RStillCars@aol.com

ANSWER: FAN SHROUD COLOR

Dear Randy -

All Franklin blower shrouding was always black enamel.

Except for the red shrouding on the Franklin "Testa Rossa"
(just kidding)

tom.

July 28, 2001

QUESTION: STICKY VALVES

"Henry H. Gray" wrote:

> > Dear Tom,
>
> Many things on my mind. I'll itemize them as below.
>
. I enjoyed your little dustup with Bobbidine in the latest FSS. Now I am a gimlet-eyed editorial type myself and I too am anoied by dor jams amd things lik that. But yu din ask fer my opnyun and I wunt giv it, at least not for free. I shall comment only that you have proved, if it needed proof, that the English language can handily come through the most virulent attack but it cannot survive Microsoft's Spell Check. Regardless of this setback, BG and friends even now continue to plot to bring the entire Universe under their control.
>

The subject in FSS is sticky valves. If I could remember all that happened to me and

Betsy in this regard, I would be one of the world's leading authorities on this subject. But I can outline the following. Our first long trip after my own restoration (egad, 40 years ago!), 500 mi. round, went without incident. On our second, about the same length, the clatter began -- first on deceleration, because that's when the cylinder doesn't receive much of a charge to ram the valves home. I didn't get the problem solved, so on our next trip, to Syracuse, I arranged to stop on the way at Earl Buchman's. Earl filled a pop-pop oilcan with kerosene and squirted the valves liberally. As we contributed to global warming, he chuckled "Let the neighbors think the old car's on fire! We know better!" I hoped so. The idea is to remove the lubrication and let the goo wear away.
>
> It worked, within reason. Saves removing the cylinders, thank goodness. But the problem remains of lubeing the stems. I first went for motor oil cut 50% with kerosene. Better, but not it. Then I tried equal parts of 2-cycle oil and kero. Better! Then George Liddell came out with a Franklin valve oil. It was not cut 50-50, it was all a highly refined low-residue oil. I still have some, but you fellows have convinced me that synthetic is still better, and so I use that now. Success: complete.
>
> Only one more thing: when the valves start to snap a bit, the offending item can be found quickly by holding a finger somewhere -- not too hot, we hope -- on the rocker-box cap, on the pushrod tube, or on the rocker arm itself. You can feel the groan, just like you can feel an arthritic joint squeak. Apply the kerosene there. (Wish that would work on arthritic joints!)
>
> Best wishes
>
> Henry

ANSWER: STICKY VALVES

Dear Henry,

Interesting, your remarks re valve clatter. I find it most interesting that early Ser. 9 manuals called for no oil on valve stems, just graphite powder. I think the Ser. 7 and 8 called out for the same. It seems to me that the book says to give them attention when they "squeak."

If Franklin had synthetic oil, there would never be any talk about valve trouble -- except for the cars with guides set up too tight.
I wish I could have used your trouble locating finger to find a couple sticky valves on my '31. Above 50 mph and below 10" of vacuum, they would start to stick, eventually making quite a noise. By the time I could get around to the engine to have a look, they would free up again. I suppose I could have removed the hood, opened the windshield and leaned over the cowl with my finger on valve covers, but I'm not as flexible as I used to be.

I ended up pulling all the cylinders to find the 2 offending valves. I had to drive them out of their guides with a hammer -- that's how tight they were.

I sure wish I had known Earl Buchman. No one likely had more practical experience.

A.V.

Tom

QUESTION: 12B DRIVE SHAFT

On the outer Spicer drive shaft dust cover on my 1928 12B, I
have cork packing, but the service manual shows felt.
Either felt or cork will have the tendency to compress and
harden over time so I am looking for something better --
longer lasting and keep its shape. Any idea's?

Tony

ANSWER: 12B DRIVE SHAFT

Tony -
This is a problem area because of the need to seal the 'bell,' thus keeping grease out and also to not wear through the thin bell. Felt tends to be abrasive and holds dirt, compounding the problem. Cork works well, but does harden over time.

I've used a variety of pump & gland packing materials over the years with mixed results. My first try was a large O-ring that fit the groove in the dust cover just right. This rode very well over the bell, I was sure it would not wear the bell surface. The O-ring never had enough tension on it -- it was too hard and would actually end up pumping grease instead of holding it back. I then went to square-cut Teflon impregnated rope packing material that worked well in my old Ser. 12. Square cut graphite packing seems also to work. The trick is to find stuff that is soft enough to conform & seal, yet not so soft that it squeezed out of place. 'firm, but not hard' is how I would describe the hardness that seems to work. You can find packing like this at an industrial supply house. If you have a place in your area that caters to steam heat supplies -- they have tons of the stuff.

Of course, the sure cure is to install new, sealed u-joints that I make up for the Ser. 12. They never throw grease, so you don't have to worry about the dust cover sealing, only that it does not wear away the bell.

tom

QUESTION: GENERATOR AND 60W AIRCRAFT OIL

Hi Tom, I have just learned that my generator should only put out 15 to 20 amps and that the meter we were using has a problem. With two
different meters, it is putting out 8 to 10 amps so
I guess I still have a problem. I really don't like
electricity.

Question? I was just given 12 gallons of non
detergent, ashfree aircraft piston engine oil.
It's a 60W oil and I'm wondering if I can use it in
my Franklin. A friend was using this type oil in
his 46 Stinson which is a 6 cyl Franklin. He sold the plane and the guy didn't take the oil.

Thanks..... Monte

ANSWER: GENERATOR AND 60W AIRCRAFT OIL

Monte -

Yes, 8 - to 10 amps is about right. All is well. Why do you want 15 - 20 amps?

DO NOT, repeat DO NOT use 60W aircraft oil in any Franklin automobile engine. I'm not exactly sure what the 'ash-free' benefit is, but it is FAR too heavy. As an experiment, I once used some 50W ash-free aircrafts oil - Shell brand, in my trusty 1913 Franklin. I siezed 2 pistons after about 25 miles of driving 45 mph. That's the ONLY time I ever stuck that engine in over 5,000 miles of driving it. It was a long time ago, before I knew of Dick Lamphere's work with series 9 engines and different weight oils. The heavier the oil, the higher the oil temperature. straght 30W ran coolest. I've confirmed these findings with side-draft & V/12 Franklin engines on dynamometer testing. I could go on, and on but will simply say "don't do it!" It makes great engine assembly oil, probably also good for some aircraft engines, not for cars.

I used to use Pennzoil 70W aircraft oil for steering gearboxes. This oil, still available from Pennzoil dealers, says right on the bottle "approved for use in Franklin engines".

70W aircraft oil is the same viscosity as 140W automotive gear oil. that 60W oil would be the same as 120W gear oil - nice stuff. The problem is, it's not formulated for high-load gear use, so I don't recommend it.

tom

MORE ON THE GENERATOR AND GAS PROBLEMS

Hi Tom, we are slowly getting there. The generator
will now put out 6.7 volts. Brush adjustment did help
a little. Its still not where it should be as far as the
amps go. Its only putting out about 25 and I have been told it should be 40. Maybe you can tell me if that is fact or fiction. I still haven't been able to locate a useable original style amp gauge to put in
the dash.

My newest problem is gas. The car came with a
cast iron bendix (zenith) carb which was in rough
shape. I put a complete kit in it and it seemed to be
OK but all of a sudden, I would run out of gas.
The vacuum system was bringing up lots of fuel
but it wouldn't go into the carb. I think the problem
is the viton needle. I think when it gets hot, the
rubber swells and sticks. I'm going to try a steel
needle that I found in another kit I had stuck away
and see if that solves the problem. I'm really hoping that the problem is not todays junk oxygenated
gas vaporizing because of the heat buildup in the
carb. Are you going to the trek this year???

Monte Colucci

Monte -

The generator should only put out 10 - 12 amps.
A steady 25 amps may be too much for that generator - the armatures tend to throw solder off the commutator when they get too hot. For normal running, 6 - 8 amps is plenty. For lots of night time use, 10 - 12 is as much as you should ask of it,

I'm still looking for a ser. 12 ammeter, I think I have one - somewhere.

Viton tips do not usually swell - but sounds like you're working in the right area.

I plan to be at the Trek, just may bring the whole family.

tom

QUESTION: ENGINE COLORS

Tom,
Thanks. I thought they should all be black but would hate to change the brown to black and find that I had goofed.
Randy Still

ANSWER: ENGINE COLORS

I've seen lots of fun colors on these parts. It used to be a simple way to 'jazz up' a dirty, old engine back when these cars were close to worthless, except to those who adored them. Eddie Landmichal of Chicago used to mail people photos of his cars with the hoods open, always showing very colorful engines. A popular pastime during the 1940's & 50's. I kind of like the idea of coordinating the tin to the body color. A person could really have some fun. There's a certain purple and green car I know......

September 3, 2001

QUESTION:USES OF O'RINGS

Another question: I am tempted to cut an O-ring grove into the top and
bottom of the push rod lifter / tappet housing and use O-rings to seal the
push rod tubes to the tappet guide and the guide to the crankcase. Is this
doable ? Will I weaken the flange too much ?

Thanks,

Bob

ANSWER:USES OF O'RINGS

Bob -

I'm not a real fan of O-rings on the lifter guides because I did it wrong and broke a bunch of guides. I figure if I messed it up, maybe it's possible others could as well.

I tried putting the O-ring on top of the lifter guide, so that it would seal inside the chamfer inside the base of the tube. This put all the stress right on top of the O-ring and not spread out over the lifter guide flange. This broke the flange away on a few guides and pushed them down into the lifter guide bore. I never noticed any running problems, but they leaked oil, or course. Your idea of machining a groove in the underside of the tube flange has merit. One would need to choose an O-ring and groove depth that would allow the ring to crush and allow contact between the tube flange and the lifter guide as these parts need to meet solidly.

You still need to seal the lifter guide to the block.
Some have had luck machining a groove in the lifter guide boss and installing an O-ring that seals in the bore. I've messed this up as well and had too much crush on the O-ring, making installation very difficult. One must chamfer the top of the guide bore to facilitate installation.

I've found that the vast majority of oil leak complaints at the pushrod bases is caused by improper adjustment of the tubes & valve cages. This is so for all series from Series 7 on up. With things nice and square, properly adjusted with good gaskets and a bit of sealer, leaks are rare. The O-rings are a nice, positive, modern solution, but in practice can cause more trouble due to potential for errors in fitting. Give it a go and lets see how dry they are at the Trek next year.
What I'd really like is a simple way to stop the oil from leaking out from under the valve cage on the sidedrafts.

tom

September 23, 2001

QUESTION:SERIES 153 OIL AND GAS GAUGE

The plater finally after 7 months, got the dash parts to me. Car runs great . Now to install the rest of the guages. I don't know if the speedometer works yet.

What I wanted to know is if the oil gauge instructions are the same as gas?

Thank you,

Richard Kelley

ANSWER:SERIES 153 OIL AND GAS GAUGE

Richard -

The oil gauge has two connections, rather than the one on the fuel gauge. There are two lines from the crankcase, otherwise, all the same principles apply. I keep meaning to get mine going, never quite get to it. It would be nice to have it operating. I just now got back from the Midwest region meet. About 30 miles from home, a nasty knock appeared, one I've not heard. Turns out #2 cylinder broke at the base. I think it had been cracked for a while, at least a day, or two. I lost quite a bit of oil out the crack before it got bad enough to knock. If I had my dash oil gauge operating, I might have spotted the oil loss before hearing the knock, then could have taking it a bit easier, making it home with less stress than limping along at 25 mph on shoulders. After a while, I pulled the pushrods out of #2, that stopped the noise and I drove the rest of the way at 45 - 50 mph. I remembered that trick from Jeff Hasslen, it worked like a charm.

tom

QUESTION:SEALING VALVE GAGE

Tom ,

Hello,

I read in the Franklin web site tech Q/A of your wanting a way to better seal under the valve gages on a side draft engine.

Got one for ya!

I use John Hasslen's cork gaskets sprayed with Permatex brand "Hylomar" Gasket dressing sealant #81998. Not easy to find so you'll probably have to order it. Small can and not cheap either, but a can is enough to generously coat both sides of six gaskets. I also use it for cylinder base gaskets too, again most of a can for the six of them.

Found it too thick for the tappet guide/pushrod tubes. It is too thick to get the tubes down all the way during assembly. Hylomar sprays on very thick, with sealant on both sides of two gaskets, that's alot of stuff. When the engine heats the sealant thins out a bit and the tubes wind up loose at the bottom, then leak.

I degrease the cages and cylinder heads with lacquer thinner. I spray the gaskets, both sides, then let them sit for an hour to blow off. Hylomar'd gaskets can be removed and will seal when reinstalled, if no oil gets on them. Hylomar cleans off with lacquer thinner.

Hylomar is rated for higher temps and if done properly, I've never had a leak from under the cages for thousands of miles.

Good luck,

Paul Fitz

ANSWER:SEALING VALVE GAGE

Thanks for the testimonial, Paul. I've been using Hylomar for just about a year now, it does work very well. I must admit, we also have been using it on pushrod tubes & lifter guides. You've got me a bit worried, but so far we've had no problems. If the tubes are properly adjusted using gaskets, but without sealer, then how could they loosen? You must see as often as I do, improperly adjusted pushrod tubes.

I think I still get some oil coming out the hole for the cover clip - I did not seal the hole next to the intake valve on mine.

Paul, I appreciate your response. I'd very much like to see this forum turn into a discussion, rather than "Tom's Questionable Advice." It would be fun to make it into a newsgroup style. That way everyone with email, if they subscribe, would get all messages daily. I wonder if there is enough interest to support it? (WebMaster: Please let me know if you are interested in this. Am e-mail will be find)

I hope the U-Joints made it o.k.

tom

MORE FROM TOM AND PAUL ON SEALING YOUR FRANKLIN ENGINE
PLUS OTHER INTERESTING ITEMS

Tom,