The H. H. Franklin Club

Answers and Questions Page #5

The H. H. Franklin Club publishes the information listed in FAQ's solely as a convenience to its members. No endorsement is made by the Club or Region, no claim or warranty is made as to the accuracy of any of this information. No responsibility is assumed for any transactions resulting form this information. Most technical questions are answered by members that work on Franklins every day.

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NEWEST QUESTION AND ANSWER FIRST and OLDEST LAST

Page number 5, questions start in January 2002

Last Revised Dec . 31, 2002

December 31, 2002

More on the clutch

Tom,
Old time Mechanic taught me this one and it has worked many times for me and others I've told it to..
Put the trans in second or high gear.
Have some one press the clutch pedal ALL the way in.
Rock the car forwards and back by pushing on a front tire.
The rocking motion puts load on the clutch in two directions.
The drive train and the clutch center absorb shock loads.

If this doesn't work at first. Back off the clutch adjusting ring as far as possible and try the above again.
Good luck.
Paul Fitz

Good Morning Tom, Thanks for the info on the clutch. I think if I do buy the car, I will pull the engine and tranny and do a complete inspection and replace the disc if necessary. Quite some time ago I used basically the same procedure that you suggested, on a 37 olds and wound up replacing
the clutch as there was disc material stuck on the pressure plate and it tore the disc up in less than a week.

This 22 Franklin I am looking at is missing the drip rail or molding that goes around the back of the top. Is this an item that is available through any parts supplier or something that will have to be made??

Happy New Year.......Monte

Hi Monte, saw your posting, check the following site if you have not
alreary done so.
http://www.lebaronbonney.com/66.htm
I have the side roof molding missing on my 11A
Was considering some Model A parts...
@ndré

Monte -

The drip molding is not available. There are some that are similar, but are larger than the original and look a bit clumsy when installed. I don't know if they can be cut down, or not. The closed cars had a two-piece drip molding - One on the back and one on the front - joined in the middle on each side. If you have the front, you'll either have to replace all of it, or make up a new back piece to match. Not a lot of fun either way.
You're thinking the right way on that clutch. Best thing is to pull it out and have a look.

tom

December 29, 2002

QUESTION: Clutch

Tom, I am looking at a 22 franklin that has a clutch that seems to be stuck.
Are they just a flat disc clutch or something else and do you have any suggestions as to how to free it up without pulling either the engine or transmission.

Hope you have a Great Holiday Season
Monte Colucci

ANSWER: Clutch

Hi Monte -

There are no simple tricks for a stuck clutch. I'll try to come up with a few ideas:

Prop the clutch pedal down to the floor with a block of wood. Insert the hand crank. With the car in gear, place a jack under the hand crank handle so that as you raise the jack, it lifts the handle, attempting to turn over the motor. (Don't forget to block the wheels!). You needn't lift the entire front of the car off the ground with the jack under the handle, but you can certainly put a good load on it. Let it sit like this - several days, or longer. You can try to tap around the clutch cover through the inspection hole - this is a 10A, right? If you're talking about a 9B, it's easier to tap on the clutch cover - but don't do this from under the car, do it from above. If it's a 9B, it's really not hard to pull the clutch cover off.

On a 10A - in a worse case situation, you can spray the disc with a penetrant. You will have to flush the housing with a solvent such as brake cleaner to get it clean enough to operate without slipping.

There are lots of things that you can try - just resist the temptation to drag the car to get it to pop free - unless you want to repair more than just the clutch.

I'll keep thinking about it and send more ideas -

Happy Holidays!

tom

QUESTION/ANSWER: Balancing the fan

Hi Tom
I have attached 2 pictures; one of Dick Gaskill's fan (1929)and one of my 11A
Do I assume that the 16 rivets on my fan also hold in sandwich the fabric rings? Is there a way to measure this "sag" . Everything seems pretty tight on my fan...
@

It takes only a very tiny amount of sag to throw the fan out of balance. You cannot really measure this as there is no reference point. Fans did not likely run dead true from new, but balancing took care of slight runout irregularities. When the fan sags, it can be rebalanced, but will shift eventually, requiring rebalancing - then repeat this process.
You are correct about the 16 rivets. If all seems to be good and tight then don't worry about it and drive the car.
If you develop a vibration in the engine, the fan is usually the culprit. Sometimes they go bad after being put back in service after a long slumber. Sometimes they simply slowly begin to loosen up. If you've balanced everything in the engine, then it should be nice and smooth. Drive it, enjoy it, if you develop a vibration, it's not so difficult to pull the fan off and repair it at a later date.
We replace the centers on every engine we do simply as a preventative measure. Some people replace the fan centers right away because they want a new engine with few surprises. Some people never drive their cars enough worry about fan balance. Some people repair as they go and wait until the fan needs it and repair it then. Some simply don't worry about fan vibration. If a car is to be driven a lot - several thousand miles per year, then replacing the fan centers is a very good idea as at this kind of use, original fan centers will likely start to complain.

tom

Andre Audette wrote:

Thank you Dick,
The crankshaft, the rods, the flywheel and the fan where balanced. I balanced the fan myself ( I have attached one picture, it is easier than to explain.) I bought a piece of 1 3/8 shaft 8 inches long which I fitted temporary in the fan shaft hole. (Same size as the crank on which the fan connects with a key). I then build a support with 2 straight steel edges to sit the shaft. The fan kept rolling with the heavy side down. I drilled the back plate (it had already some factory drilled portion) until the whole thing became stable. A bit like balancing a tire the old fashion way. I seems to work. This is for the 11A of course..I have more pictures if it helps I will share this with Frank and Tom

December 21, 2002

QUESTION: Series 3 main cap nut keepers

,
do you have a suggestion on how to lock the main bolt nuts that had the
metal strip about 3" long with a hexagon hole cut in each end that
originally did the job but won't line up if you torque the nuts the same
amount because the nuts don't line up just right.
The best idea I can come up with is to use small hose clamps and safety wire
them to the stud provided in the main cap. Or do you just tighten them till
they line up & don't worry about torque?
Merry Christmas,
Tim

ANSWER: Series 3 main cap nut keepers

Tim -

One method is to swap nuts around until you get one that does line up, continue this procedure until you cannot get any to line up. The lap these nuts on a surface plate, or piece of glass with some medium grit wet-or-dry and try it again. It takes a bit of patience, but you should be able to get all nuts to line up perfectly at even torque.
Sounds like Christmas fun in your shop this season - Best to all -

tom

QUESTION: S16 project

In ACN #100 there was a process documented whereby a groove was machined
around the base of the cylinders and an O-ring installed insuring a
leakproof seal between the cylinders and crankcase. Any thoughts?

I'm co-hosting a NorthWest HHFC Tour June 23-25 2003 for those who can't
make it to the WestTrek. Details will be in the ACN and FSS.

Dick

ANSWER: S16 project

Dick,

There are a couple risks involved with the process you describe. First - it requires careful engineering and material choices to be certain that the O-ring has proper crush to seal, yet not so much that it holds up the cylinder base, increasing the risk of base fractures. Base fractures are not all that rare, I'm afraid. Anything that might reduce the clean, flat surface area of the base to crankcase might not be the best idea.

The factory used thin copper gaskets under the cylinders. I'm not completely certain why - perhaps to aid heat transfer? I've had less that great success with the copper base gaskets, they seem to be difficult to seal. Thin paper, with sealant on both sides has proven to be extremely effective in stopping cylinder base leaks. It's a good idea to fun a flat file over the base to be sure all nicks and burrs are removed. We like to do the same for the crankcase, but this requires the removal of all the studs. With clean, true surfaces and a bit of sealant, you should not have cylinder base leaks.
It's also easier than machining for an O-ring.

The tour sounds like fun. It's difficult for me to get away during the week, but maybe I can swing it??

tom

QUESTION: Davids reply re Oz Franklin

Tom
Thanks for your detailed answer, I have faxed a copy to Parrys. Unfortunatly I have been unable to view the rod photo, perhaps if you reduced it in size we could receive it.
Just a basic question from me, you mentioned a side clearance of 0.010", do you mean each side of the rod or overall??? My thought was that as the barrels are bolted, not doweled into position & the crankcase is aluminium, with a greater coefficient of expansion than the steel crank,perhaps I might induce a drag on rods after heat expansion.
The drought is terrible, two friends farming 60,000 acres in the Bourke area of N.S.W. have now run out of water in their house tanks, the costs are enormous, dead cattle and sun burnt land as far as the eye can see. Even kangaroos are starving,falling dead in their tracks.
Meanwhile Sydney being so dry is being ringed by huge bushfires that destroyed 30 homes yesterday and its on again today. There are 70 water bombing aircraft working and only a handful of fire trucks left on normal duty in the city. Down here we say "THINGS ARE PRETTY CROOK".
Regards David.

ANSWER: Davids reply re Oz Franklin

David -

0.010 side clearance is overall, 0.005 per side. Cranckase expansion is great, as you perceived. However, there is sufficient clearance at the small end of the rod to handle such expansion. Imagine the rod held tightly to the crank; the cylinder can be moved forward or backward by the amount of clearance between the side of the rod small end and the inside wrist pin boss inside the piston. This is usually well over 0.125", easily handling the possible crankcase expansion.

The drought - a national disaster. It's a tough land, in which you live. It's difficult to tame Mother Nature. Your fellow countrymen seem to be of a resilient lot, however. We'll pray for rain -

tom

December 3, 2002

QUESTION:decision on davids engine

Gooday Tom
I will use a brass shim gasket under the oil pump body as you suggested, however its back to the drawing board with the rods. Due to the past problems and extensive machining to take the slippers that then required the new metric oversize socket head cap bolts and clench nuts, plus the difficulty in pouring new babbit big ends into aluminum rods & caps without the centrifically cast method, we have made another decision.
6 new steel rods are to be produced on a cnc machine. The rods will come out of single billets of steel and will be machined to take poured babbit metal including babbit each side to allow the required
0.010" side float on the crank pin. The wrist pins will be fully floating held in place by circlips therefore obsoleting the set screw holding the wrist pin in position. The bearing caps will be steel, dowled into position and locked into position with hardened rod bolts that will screw into the con rod ,therefore obsoleting the nut. Therefore the height of the head of the bolt contacting the revolving cam shaft will never be a worry.
The reason for the babbit in lieu of the insert bearing is the width , modern bearings are quite narrow, also we believe the thicker babbit may have a cushioning effect for the longer stroke old motors.
IF this all works out we may come up with an effective repair method for 11A & B franklins, because with your dollar in favour over here in Australia it may be cost effective.
Regards David Rundle.

ANSWER:decision on davids engine

David -

I see no problem with your steel rod plan. As you know, we made billet rods for an Olympic project a few years back. Here's what I learned: 8643 Chrome Moly was the material choice. Such a wide big end necessitated a very large billet chunk, adding significantly to the cost. Rod was heat treated after machining, then steel shot blasted for final stress relieving. A full floating pin is a good idea. We had the rods edm rifle drilled to supply oil to the wrist pin bushing. Mark then came up with the idea of drilling through the top of the rod with a metered squirt hole to squirt oil on the underside of the piston head, thus using oil to help cool the pistons. Bear in mind that this engine had a high capacity, full pressure oil pump. I'm not sure if the pulse system would do much here. Neat idea, though. Oh yeah - we also ran an external oil cooler.
Locating pins for the caps is a decent idea. Note the method used on our rod. Cap screws is a good idea - see photo attached of our rod big ends.

Regarding babbitt Vs inserts, I don't have a problem with the idea of babbitting the rod. Thin babbitt is still better than thick babbitt. Keep it as thin as possible, 0.062" is plenty of thickness. If you're feeling real gusty, you could always add abit of length to the rod to gain more compression. We went a full 1" longer, then used modern pistons with a shorter compression height. I do not recommend this route, however as we spent much time and lots of pistons on R&D before we got it satisfactory.

While I find the project compelling, I certainly doubt it will be very cost-effective. Most Ser. 10 & 11 owners will likely continue to rebabbitt the original rods. Done correctly, the results seem to be 100% satisfactory. Poor bonding, old babbitt, wear and improper assembly seem to be the main contributors to rod problems in these cars.

Keep me posted, this sounds like a fun winter- I guess for you a summer- job!

Today's newspaper reported on the drought conditions in Australia. I hope you are not adversely affected. We'll pray for rain. At least with the air-cooled Franklin, you are not consuming as much valuable resources as those wet-nosed buggies.

tom
ps - let me know if you cannot view the attached photos.

November 30, 2002

QUESTION: davids engine problems

Gooday Tom
After stripping the motor completely I found no.2 big end worn out, with the bearing cap discolored from excessive heat ,as was the journal, straw color not blue, indicating an oil pressure problem.
I had used clench nuts on the big end bolts which are socket head cap screws. The clench nuts hardly required any pressure to remove them, remembering they had been tensioned to 30 ft.lbs. with a torque wrench, so I guess with the bearing worn down through the copper of the insert the bolts were off load so the nuts cracked easily. (I have lost faith in the clench nut idea, nothing like a split pin & a drop of loctite)
No.3 big end also was suffering lack of oil and was on the way to destruction, one nut released at 20 ft.lbs. the other at 30 ft.lbs.
No. 1 big end was just starting to wear, its nuts still 30 ft. lbs.
The other 3 big ends were ok, all nuts released at 30 ft. lbs. although I feel no 6 could have been slightly pinched as it had some resistance revolving on the journal
With regard to the crankshaft a light polish should suffice for the motor was shut down before major damage was incurred and all the main bearings are ok.
The pistons show slight vertical scour on one side, always opposite the expansion split, perhaps a little heavier scouring on no,s 1 2 & 3 however a little polishing will clean them up. The Jugs are fine.
All the wires around the wrist pin bolts were broken, although they are not loose , however we are all mystified at the side clearance of the connecting rod on the crankshaft journal, it is certainly over 1/ 16'
and as the piston has plenty of side movement on the wrist pin we thought perhaps this side clearance unecessary------- I would appreciate your comment on this? We are contemplating fitting steel shells in the cap & connecting rod yoke and pouring a babbit bearing to retain the bond to the steel as well as the cushioning effect or the thicker babbit. We could also have sides on the inserts coated with bearing babbit to take up side clearance,------ any thoughts Tom ?
Now finally to the oil problem, unfortunatly I have to shoulder the blame. The first job i did prior to the origional rebuild was to clean up the sump and dissassemble the oil pump. when it came to reassembly I have looked around for some good gasket material producing a beautiful leak proof gasket but not considering its thickness. I have since determined with shims that my gasket material should have been 0.016" compressed , however mine was 0.032" compressed, creating a 0.016 " gap over the top of the rotating oil pump gears, therefore reducing my oil pressure , creating the source of my engine problems.------------ Do you think I am on the right track Tom ???
So thats about it Tom as you can see I am wide open to suggestions.
Incidentally, I am modifying the Sirroco fan with Don Kitchens discs and your bolts, I was unable to locate a K reamer in this metric country but i was able to obtain a new letter K drill and it seems to have done the job.
This is almost another Rundles Ramblings, hope to hear from you soon, regards David.

ANSWER: davids engine problems

David -

Nice to hear you're getting dirty fingernails working at the bench and not spending too much time at the beach!

I'll try to give a few comments on-the-fly:

The rod nuts should not loosen when a bearing wears, or burns. There should be sufficient "crush", or as the British call it "nip" of the bearing insert shells such that when the rod is tightened, the shells are clamped tightly into the rod bore well before the rod cap seats on the rod itself. For an aluminum rod, you should have at least 0.002" crush. The rod bolts should not loosen with proper crush, unless the bolts stretch or the nuts loosen for some reason. Since the only loose nuts were the ones with the bad bearings, I wonder if the heat somehow managed to let things relax a bit.
It's nice to have a casehardened crankshaft, they stand up to a lot. I think you're on the right track regarding oil pressure problems. You would certainly lose capacity with that size leak inside of the pump. I know the car ran well and you put a good number of miles on it. You did have oil delivery, just not enough for hard running. When rebuilding the pump, stay away from gasket paper that is more than a few thousandth thick. You can lap & machine the gears and the housing so that you end up needing only a very thin gasket, or a brass or copper shim. Better check the mains that feed the 1st 3 rods to make sure they did not suffer.

There should only be about 0.010 big end side clearance to the crankshaft journal. It may be that the crank journal was ground wider, or that the rods had been narrowed somewhat. A Series 10 rod I have here measures 1.670" wide. I would think yours would be the same. The large amount of side clearance would probably be o.k. if everything in the engine is straight and true. Rods, crankpins, cylinder bores etc. With all dead true, the rods will not have much reason to slap around and you could get away with it.

Otherwise, you can have the crankshaft welded up and reground. Up here, this would probably cost about $500 for the 6 journals. You could also weld on the side of the rods, but that's not a lot of fun to do to a heat treated forging - who knows how much strength might be compromised. You could also make the inserts you describe and put side thrust flanges on the, Pre Series 10 Franklin rods were done this way. The thrust does not need to be large as there should be very little load on it, just enough to keep things from making a noise when induced to bounce against the crank side.

Regarding the aircraft collector, his name is Wally Fisk. I cannot locate current info on him, but have found lots on the Internet. Do a Google search under Wally Fisk, or AMJET, or Polar Aviation and you can find lots on him. If you get completely stuck, let me know and I'll go back up there and see what I can find out.

Had a nice ride in the 1905 yesterday - 38 degrees, a bit on the windy side, but clear skies. It will not likely be that warm again for a while up here - must take advantage of these heat waves when they come! (Don't tell Laura, but there's a show in the Florida Keys I might sneak away to in a couple weeks!)

Best to Diane -

tom

November 25, 2002

QUESTION:Stewart Vacuum Chamber (thingy) Question

Hi Paul,

I am preparing to restore my Stewart Vacuum fuel pump thingy and have a materials question for you. The inside of the lower chamber has some surface rust which I will thoroughly remove. Preventing the reformation of rust is a major goal. It as been suggested to me that POR-15 would be a good choice for the task. I am wondering if this would be preferable to the type of coatings used for fuel tank sealing?

Your thoughts on this subject would be appreciated. If you have a preferred method of protecting the internal chambers I am all ears. :)

Tim

ANSWER:Stewart Vacuum Chamber (thingy) Question

Tim,

This is one of those , "simple is better" situations.
After having problems with a number of different types of sealers, I don't use any! We don't know what additives the fuel companies are going to use next year. What works today, may not at a later date.
I clean all rust and gunk out and use Marvel Mystery oil in the gas in the quantities listed on the Marv. Myst container. This keeps the entire fuel system clean and corrosion free. It is also good for the rings and intake valves. I wash all fuel system parts in lacquer thinner and dry. Lacquer thinner cuts through old fuel gum and varnish very well. It is less expensive then other fuel system cleaners and leaves no residue of it's own. I then glass bead metal parts clean of corrosion. Be very careful of bead or sand blasting potmetal. It will scale and blister the surface from blast friction heat. When blasting potmetal, I turn the pressure down to about 30 - 35 psi. and keep the nozzle moving!!!!!
Gas tanks first get washed with lacquer thinner. You can have the tank cleaned commercially, but I use crushed stone from my drive way and shake well! I'm only concerned about rust that will come loose in large amounts. Wash again with lacquer thinner to remove all loosened rust. Later on, once the car is in use, the small amounts of rust that may form, depending on how much the car is used, are only the size of powder. I put an in line fuel filter somewhere in the fuel line before the vacuum tank . Works great and I don't have to worry if next years gas is going to loosen any coatings.
Hope this helps.
Paul Fitz.

Paul,
Thanks for the info. Your approach makes a lot of sense, especially with the constantly changing formulations of fuel. I am off to Home Depot for some laquer thinner. :)
One question about the fuel tank: Using gravel in the gas tank and agitating it is to dislodge any scale or large rust deposits?
I think I will look into a blasting cabinet for my shop. I have been feeling the need for a new power tool..he he he.
Tim

Tim,
The lacquer thinner will remove most of the old gas residue but not all. After you drain and wash the gas tank, remember to let the gas tank air out a few weeks outdoors. I stand gas tanks in the sun, on end with the filler neck down for at least two weeks before doing the blue stone cocktail shaker method of loosening rust. The fumes left in a dry tank still pose an explosion hazard. If you don't wait a few weeks, the tank warms up from friction of stone shaking and it will have fumes come out of the rust pits. Never sandblast or bead blast a gas tank either !

Don't buy a bead cabinet....you'll only get spoiled and never want to clean anything by hand brush ever again!!!!! Next thing you know, you'll have a sand blasting room so you can do the large parts too. Never thought I'd still be playing in "my sand box" with "toy cars" but I do.
Have fun,
Paul Fitz.

QUESTION: CARB. AIR FILTER

HI PAUL,

I READ YOUR ARTICLE ON THE AIR FILTER.

I OWN A 1927 11-B WHICH HAS A E-2 CARB. DO YOU KNOW IF THAT SAME AIR FILTER CAN BE ADAPTED TO THAT CARB.

THANKS,

HARVEY RUTHEISER IN VERMONT
ANSWER: CARB. AIR FILTER

Dear Mr.. Rutheiser,

Please excuse my ignorance, but you have me at a loss as to, what article about an air cleaner ?

I'm assuming you meant to say an OE-2 on your 11B? These Stromberg carburetors that have an SAE number 2 size mounting flange, all have the same diameter choke horn, therefore all can use the same air cleaner as a Stromberg T-2 (1928-29) and both the potmetal and cast iron versions of the U-2 (1929 late). The only problem may be clearance of the choke cable sleeve.

I hope this helps you. If not feel free to e-mail back or call.
607- 674- 9432.
Yours,
Paul Fitz.

PAUL,
SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION BUT AT FIRST GLANCE AT THE FRANKLIN WEB-SITE PAGE UNDER FRANKLIN PARTS, NUMBER 14 IT APPEARED THAT YOU WERE THE CONTRIBUTOR OF THE ITEM ON THE K & N AFTER MARKET AIR FILTER FROM NAPA.
THERE WAS NO OTHER NAME APPEARING SO I THOUGHT IT WAS YOU.

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THIS ITEM ? IF NOT CAN YOU TELL ME HOW I CAN LOCATE THE WRITER SO I CAN CONTACT HIM.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.

SINCERELY,
HARVEY RUTHEISER

Harvey,
No problem !
I checked through my parts carbs and my customer's carbs. No OE- 2 here, but I did measure a customer's T-2 that is from a series 12. If I remember correctly, your OE-2 should be the same size choke horn as this T-2, which is 2- 1/16 inch outside diameter. K&N calls it flange size.

That being the case, my K&N book's formula's say that you need a filter with a minimum of 34 square inches surface area. My catalog lists RU-0500 as the correct size at 3-1/2 inch diameter and 4 inches long for that 2-1/16" flange size. They list larger filters which would give you more time between cleanings.
2-1/16" flange diameter, 4-1/2" dia x 4" length= RU- 0530.
" " " , 4-1/2" dia x 5" length= RU- 0540.
Hope this helps. If this flange size is not correct for your carburetor, let me know what diameter it is and I will look up the K&N numbers that should work. I would recommend that you check these measurements on your 11A and order the largest that will clear all cables, linkages and the steering box.
Let me know how you make out with it and I will forward the size/part numbers to the Franklin Club webmaster.
Yours,
Paul Fitz.

QUESTION: T2 CARB

Paul,
Thank you for your reply, right now I'm undecided as to what to do.
I have corresponded with Jon Hardgrove of The Carburetor Shop and he has the top of the float bowl, the one I have now is broken were the fuel line connects, but he refuses to sell it because "quote" The castings are chemically unstable, and will explode! and I would be rebuilding a bomb. For now there is an O-3 on it but the problem is I can't get the engine to idle down. I can only adjust the idle screw so far then the engine quits at about 800 RPM. I completely took it apart and cleaned it out and I'm 100% sure all passages are clear. I did notice that the O-3 has a larger venturi than the T-2 and I have tried the air-fuel adjustment but nothing happens. Is there another carb. I can use to replace the O-3 and theT-2. I'm working on this car for a friend and it has been sitting for several years, I got it running and it has a very good engine. So far I have sealed the gas tank fixed the sending and dash units replaced all fuel lines and rebuilt the vacuum fuel tank. Everything works perfect but the carb. If you have any good ideas or a carb. that would work better I will be very grateful.
Thanks Paul, Bill Bond

ANSWER: T2 CARB

Bill,
Pot metal carbs are a problem and liability for carb rebuilders. They are porous and do literally slow motion explode(swell and crack). Most, myself included, just won't touch them. The O -3 is too big. It' not a carb sized for that motor. 11B's used an OE-2, which would work, but not as well as the later Strombergs, such as T-2 and the cast iron U-2 of the series 130. The cast iron U-2's are VERY rare. Only used on Franklins and only the last half of 1929.

There is an alternative for less money then a used U-2 and possibly less then Hargrove would want for the bowl cover. (he's incredibly expensive). Peter Kunan has been using a modern replacement, Marvel brand updraft on his '28. He seems to be pleased with it. Tom Hanniford of the Antique Auto Parts Cellar, 6 Chauncy St. S. Weymouth, Ma. is the guy who has them. 781- 335-1579.

FYI, he also sells fuel pump, and fuel pump rebuilding kits.

Hope this helps.

November 21, 2002

QUESTION: A COUPLE OF PROJECTS

Hi Tom How you doing? Just a couple of more things to do with Beatrice before she goes on to the dollies for winter, and then the fun starts again. There are two things that I would like your coments on and infomation please. One project I wish to start right away, and the other one possible in the spring , depending. The first one is to convert from 6volts to 12volts Although I know that I shall loose the originality of the car, I can always change back at a latter date if I am not happy. But now that I have good compression on my car and she seems to tackle most hills without fear any more, it seems sence to me to help my starting problem to give it an extra kick to get the gas up to the manifold quicker, to start quicker, and turn the starter motor over less to get it fired up [ LESS WEAR & TEAR ) on the starter motor also it will flick those indicator lights a little faster for town traffic and help on the occasions that I get caught out with dark nights and adverse weather conditions that sometimes catch one out Brighter lights. I also have a twelve volt system ( Bench Charged only once a year ) running along side of my six volt system. My 6volt system runs everything that a Franklin 12a has to run normally although there is a discharge on the dynamo when i use my lights of 10amps This will be altered when I take the dynamo to a engineer who specializes in starter motors and dynamos. The 12volt system runs the windscreen wiper, a eberspatcher ( an electrical gas driven heating system and a out of sight casette player that gives pleasure at shows playing 1920,s music ) It would be sence to have everything running from one 12volt system?? I have read the John Burns column by Richard Lamphere and wondered if you know if there has been a success rate in the past? I understand about the bulb changes, flasher unit ,coil. I am not sure about amp, gas gauges? and horn. The article seems to think that the Starter motor and Dynamo will survive this extra boost providing that it is not constant and excessive I use the vacume tank system for my gas so there is no problem there, but I also have a back up system in reserve running from a 6volt pump . Would this have to be changed or is there a way round this with resisttors? Have you also heard about electronic regulators being used ? My Dynamo and Starter motor engineer seems to think that 121volts starting will strip the teeth off the cogs on the motor ? Sugestions, advice ideas please. I will come back to you on the other topic later ( being Overdrives and High ratio gears ) Hope all is well Regards to everyone Eric.

ANSWER: A COUPLE OF PROJECTS

Hi Eric -

Sorry for the long delay in responding - Lots of busy work at the shop right now.

I'm not a proponent of converting to 12 volts. The biggest reason people convert is to aid in starting. If your car is not starting well, then there is a problem to address. A Series 12 should start in 20 degree weather from stone cold in just a few revolutions of the engine. When warm, they start with a quick tap on the starter button. Is your choke butterfly closing 100%? Do you have any vacuum leaks? Is it cranking too slowly? How about starter connections?

If you want to convert to 12 volts to run more lights for safety purposes, I am a little more understanding. A good, strong 6 Volt will power plenty of lights, even with a steady discharge on the ammeter, but I know how hard it can be to find 6 volt batteries with good capacity as well as durability. In my part of the country, batteries are sold by their rated cold cranking capacity for winter starting. High Cold Cranking Amps - CCA, is achieved by adding more plates in the battery for more surface area. More plates means thinner plates. As such, the durability is terrible. Buy a battery with a lower CCA rating and the plates are usually thicker.

But, I digress...

As far as the conversion itself, the starter will handle 12 volts without trouble, although wear on the starter will be accelerated due to the higher loads imparted on the important rotating bits whilst spinning at nearly twice it's normal rate. Better have a couple spare Bendix springs along as well. Owen Dyneto's are rugged units and will probably handle it fine, but don't be lulled into thinking they're having an easy time of it with 12 volts.

The generator will also handle 12 volts without modification. Beware of asking for too much out of the Owen Dyneto armature or you may find a dead charging system accompanied by smoke and solder droplets seeping out of the back of the housing. 10 - 15 amps at 12 volts, however, is quite a bit more juice than 10 - 15 amps at 6 volts, so you do get a net increase here without asking for more load from the generator. Another option is to run a later generator. The later Franklins used a Delco generator. I have seen a couple instances where a later model Delco generator bolted up the Franklin front mount without modification. One would need to graft a Franklin armature snout onto the Delco generator, but I have seen it done.

As you suggest, you would need to change the coil and all bulbs. If the gasoline gauge & sending unit could withstand the extra voltage, they would not read correctly. Amp gauge would be O.K. Horn would behave like the starter - it would spin very fast, might not sound right, might not last long. You're 6volt backup fuel pump would need to be converted. 12 volt pumps are far more common anyway, much easier to get a reliable 12V than a 6V.

To summarize, it can certainly be done, and has been successfully done in the past. If it were my problem, though - I'd get a generator and voltage regulator from a mid 1950's 6 volt General Motors car. You would have lots of capacity, regulated at that. You could extra driving lights, tail lamps, wipers, heater etc. and not compromise the rest of the electrical system. The disadvantages are that you would have to fix the starting problem and continue to find 6 volt accessories. I have a voltage inverter in my 1931 which supplies 12 volts for my cell phone and my GPS system. These can power up to 10 amps, enough for a small sound system.

All the later Franklins suffer somewhat from low output generators. I should probably convert my own 153 to a later Delco and quit worrying about running out of batteries when I tour at night for long distances. A headlamp relay is an absolute must as well - the Franklin switches do not work as well as they did when new.

I'll bet that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's my $0.02, as we say over here. Good discussion topic, though. Let me know which way you go and how you go about it. Like I said, I really have the same problem in my 153.

Good to hear from you - I hope your autumn is pleasant.

tom

November 15, 2002

NOTE FROM TOM Bob Green Overdrive

I'm glad you do things with such careful planning! Just to make it interesting, and more of an 'authentic' experience, I like to ignore such things entirely until the major failure forces me to pull the transmission outside in the snow. One time - true story - I was driving my Model A Ford home from a friend's house, very late at night, middle of February. The rear end started making some noise about 5 miles from home. It was progressing quite quickly from some noise to a growl, so I drove slower & slower as I crept closer and closer to home the noise getting louder and louder. I really did not want to break down at such an hour in the dead of winter. Just a short distance from home, the noise gradually got quieter and quieter and I slowly picked up speed until the noise was almost gone and I was 1/4 mile from home. I was very excited, after white knuckling the last few miles, and I opened-'er-up for the last couple blocks.
The rear end locked completely at about 40 mph and I slid to a stop a couple hundred yards from my driveway, in the middle of the road. How I got it off the road and home is too long of a story, but it reminded me how much fun it is to have 'authentic' experiences. I was an authentic fool for doing what I did, but I was young then..... and heck, it was just a FORD.

tom

November 8, 2002

QUESTION: Bob Green Overdrive

I've been getting unfriendly sounds from the Warner Overdrive (modified to full mechanical by Bob Green) on my 1928 Model 12A. Fortunately, the noise only occurs in the overdrive mode so my normal cavorting about the countryside has not been curtailed. However, the unknown always makes me somewhat nervous and I would like to get it fixed for a more relaxing drive! Does anyone know of a wizard who has worked on these in the past and would likely have the required new/used replacement parts? Any thoughts and/or an aim in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
Very best regards,
AV
Ken Dufrane

ANSWER: Bob Green Overdrive

Depending on what is making the noise, the overdrives can be rebuilt. Not all of the parts are available for that unit. As you may know, the problem may not be in the overdrive even though it only makes that noise when the overdrive is in use. Actually it is always in use to a degree. It changes the load/speed/sound of the drive train from the overdrive forward. It would require the entire car in a shop so that the drive line can be checked. I've worked on a few Bob Green conversions and each had it's own unique problem(s).

If I can be of any help let me know.

Paul Fitz. 607-674-9432

Ken -

Tip from Jeff Hasslen:
Try Midwest Region Member Lloyd Young. 614-837-7440 shirlylloyd@juno.com I think he has the remains of Bob Green's overdrive business.

tom

Thanks to you and the club for the rapid response. I talked with Lloyd
Young today and it appears that he is a treasured replacement for Bob Green.
He rebuilds units and has hundreds of old overdrives for parts. He will
also sell parts separately and has some kits for modernizing the old drives;
i.e., "un-mechanicalizing"..

Very best regards,

Aura Vincit, Ken Dufrane

November 1, 2002

QUESTION: T-2 STROMBERG

I'm in need of information for a T-2 Stromberg carb. used on the 28 Franklin other than the two Illustration's in the owner's manual. I mainly need very good Illustration's showing all of the carb. and specifications.
Thanks,
Bill Bond
1054 Minnetonka Rd.
Severn, MD. 21144
bondmodela@aol.com

ANSWER: T-2 STROMBERG

Bill -

You'll need original Stromberg literature for complete views and all parts. I don't have T-2 info, you should contact Jon Hardgrove at The Carburetor Shop, 573-392-7378, Eldon Missouri
www.thecarburetorshop.com. Jon has probably the most complete early carb inventory of parts & literature.

I hope this helps -

Tom Rasmussen

October 24, 2002

ANSWER: gauge faces

Mike -
re instrument face repair on your '32 convertible:

There are lots of places, just about any speedometer/instrument shop that advertises in Hemmings. I use APT Speedometer 9632 Humboldt Ave S., Bloomington, MN 55431 ph 952-881-7095 They do a nice job, usually have very quick turnaround, but lately they have been very busy and a bit slow, like a couple months.

You can also scan the faces, blow it up, clean up the color on the computer and print new faces that you can stick on the old. The oil and gas gauges are tough because they are not flat, but the clock, ammeter and speedo are pretty easy to do this way.

For the gas & oil gauges, one time I cleaned the original faces, painted them white with a good enamel and then installed my own lettering using rub-on transfers from an office supply store. You can get the right size font, but it's hard to rub on each letter, number, dash & slash just right. It was kinda fun to do, though.

I prefer APT because they are screen printed. I have found, however, that the gas gauge fluid will dissolve the printing and ruin the gauge if allowed to leak onto the face.

Tom

QUESTION: Modern pinion seal

Is there one that can be adapted? I have an extra retaining flange that I could have machined and just do a swap. The 16B is leaking in a fierce way. Drove it 548 miles on a CCCA tour, filled the rear end with 90 wt before leaving and it was dripping off the gas tank. Failed the little finger test when I got home. Will use 140 in the future but have to do something about the seal.

Mike

ANSWER: Modern pinion seal

Mike -

The seal is a Chicago Rawhide #21069. It has an outside diameter of 2.763 and runs on the hub of the u-joint flange, which is 2.125". The original seal housing needs to be machined for the new seal. It's important to machine the housing for a slip fit and use a bit of loctite, or silicone to holed the seal. If the housing is machined for a press fit, I find the die-cast material will expand and allow the seal to loosen and spin in the housing. Not good.

Be careful when pulling the u-joint flange from the pinion shaft, use a good puller. It's possible to bend these guys.

Bear in mind that with good seals on the rear end, a breather must be installed, or pressure build-up can blow past even the best seals. The simplest method is to remove the differential cover and install a small sintered bronze, or similar breather available from air compressor supply places. Any small kind of breather will work. Be sure it's not in line with the ring gear or oil will be thrown right out the breather. When we have an axle housing completely disassembled, we usually put the breather in the axle housing tube, right side, near, or under the spring perch.

I'm glad the car is running well and you're getting some good use out of it. It would be nice to repair a major oil leak on one of your cars, eh?

tom

October 18, 2002

QUESTION: Original Franklin Engine Bearings

Hi Tom,

I very much enjoyed your article on straightening and balancing connecting rods..... that's the kind of material I wish we had in ACN more often.

I have an opportunity to acquire a 10-C Touring car. The car is well cared for with low milage and in good running condition, but I believe that the engine may be largely original.

My question concerns the ability to reliably and confidently drive on an original engine. If the bearings appear good visually, are original Franklin bearings of sufficient quality for trouble-free use today? Or would there always be the looming threat of catastrophic failure which makes new bearings a necessity if the car is going to be seriously driven? And if that's true, does that apply to both the mains and connecting rods, or just the rods? (I believe that my old Series 11 had original mains and new rods. The combination held up well for the 25,000 miles I put on it.)

If the mains are usually without trouble, would it be advisable to send the rods for inspection AND alignment/balancing, and perhaps a new set of high compression pistons? If so, and if I acquire the car, is this something I can rely on your shop to do for me?

Again, enjoy and very much appreciate all of your technical advice to the Club.

With best regards,

--Scott Dwyer

ANSWER: Original Franklin Engine Bearings

Hi Scott -

Tough questions to answer -

There are a couple problems with bearings in the Ser. 10 & 11. One of the problems is in the upper main bearing inserts. There is a rectangular oil groove in the bearings that was cast right into the shell. This groove goes clear through the bearing, like a window. The main bearings in the 10's and 11's are very weak in this spot and tend to fracture when the clearance gets a bit on the high side. Sometimes the fractured bearing causes no other problems. Sometimes the bearing actually shifts, since the oil slot 'window' is actually quite large and once cracked through, allows for bearing movement. Sometimes oil flow gets pinched off and the corresponding connecting rod fails, due to a lack of oil supply from that bearing. Sometimes the fractured bearing allows for excess leakage out that particular main bearing and the corresponding rod fails due to lack of oil. The only repair is to replace the main bearing upper inserts. They can be re-cast, in place in the crankcase, or bronze shells can be fabricated and then babbitt lined. The oil hole is drilled in the new bearing shell and no slot is machined.

Mains & rods both suffer from excess clearance due to wear. Excess clearance can cause a very slight pounding, much less of a pounding than is audible. Old babbitt tends to crystallize, to some extent, like old concrete. The older it gets, the harder it gets. It becomes less malleable and more brittle. When clearance gets just a bit too much, the bearing can fracture - this happens very easily in the mains, due to the oil slot as previously described. On the rods, when this happens, the babbitt tends to break out of the rod in large and very small chunks, sometimes exploding into dust.

SO....

Here is my take on running with original babbitt:

If old babbitt is in perfect visual condition, with no flecking or flaking AND the journal surface is in excellent condition with taper and out of round less than a half thousandth, AND the clearance between the bearing and journal is even and tight, say, less than 0.0025", with less than 0.002" better yet, then it is possible that the bearing will have continued long life.

But.. it is still old and brittle. If it pounds, it has a far greater chance to fail catastrophically than a newer bearing that remains somewhat elastic and will emit an audible knock before failing - usually.

One of the problems is that checking the upper main bearing shell is difficult with the crankshaft in place.

It should be noted that in general, Franklin main bearings are extremely long lived. The slotted bearings in the 10's and 11's, however, were a weak link.

I think running on original babbitt is fine, as long as it is very carefully checked out. If things are not PERFECT, then it might not be a great idea to set out for San Diego from Troy New York, via intestates when you have a deadline and have to drive 50 mph.

A 10-C touring would be a GREAT car! I hope you get it. If so, drop the pan and take a look - do some plastigauge work and see what you get. If it looks fantastic, then drive it. If not, give me a call.

BTW, I was on a tour with my 10-C a couple weeks ago - what a great car. I love the feeling I get looking out over the Ser. 10 hood. Harold Overdeck would have been 92 today.

Good Luck!

tom

Sept. 17, 2002

QUESTION: CLUTCH

Took out clutch again and there is very little play in pilot brg, would even say would not want it any tighter. Thought occured to me while eating supper that w/ tranny apart could use input shaft to line up clutch disc - will probably give it a try.
For Seals Input shaft is 1.000' dia, output shaft is 1 1/16".
Have Stabilator straps ready to send to you - to house or shop???? G. TomLaura@aol.com wrote:

Gordon -

ANSWER: CLUTCH

Gordon -

For the input shaft - try a Chicago Rawhide #9815. This is for a 1" shaft, fits into a 1.250" bore, is only 0.125 thick. Machine the seal area from the back side of the bearing retainer, thus keeping the original acme thread intact - appearance is not altered.

Alternative would be a #9814. This fits into a 1.375" bore - you may not have enough room for this size of a bore without losing the acme thread extension. This seal is a double-lip with a tension spring and would be a superior seal, but it might not fit. The 9815 is a single-lip design, no spring, but is nice and small and will certainly fit. I think the larger seal will fit - you'll have to check.

For the 1 1/16" shaft, the choices are poor. a #10515 fits a 1.499" bore, is 0.250 thick. It's a good design - spring loaded lip. Check the retainer - if you think you have room for a 1.5" bore then go for it. If this fits, then I would assume you could also use the #9814 larger seal on the input side.

I hope this is good info - let me know what you come up with. Best thing to do is drag the bearing retainers to the bearing house and ask to look at these seal numbers - then you can do a rough visual inspection to determine if they might fit.

It's certainly a good idea to use the input shaft to align the clutch, while you have it out. I would still replace the pilot bearing, unless it's already a modern sealed bearing. I think they are a #62032RS - it's a very standard bearing, usually under $10.

I'm happy to have the snubber belting - send it to the shop 8080 Central Ave NE, Spring Lake Park, MN 55432

Thanks, Gordon & good luck!

tom

Sept. 11, 2002

QUESTION AN ANSWER: HOW TO REMOVER A FAN ON THE COLLEGE CAMPUS

Marlene -

It was certainly a great moment when, after struggling for the better part of an hour trying to remove the fan nut from John Yurconic's Ser 19, your father walked up and said "Why don't you use a wrench handle long enough to wedge between the frame and front spring, then hit the starter". There was a bit of head scratching and some tentative wonderment. Sounds a bit crazy, might just work. As you know, it worked like a charm, your dad never doubted it. He announced matter-of-factly that he had done it countless times himself. I can sometimes be lost without my shop and specialty tools. You're dad's a treasure and his knowledge is indispensable and irrefutable. Thanks for the installation tip - I'll pass this along to Frank.

It was a nice Trek, wasn't it. You and Chet did a marvelous job on Sunday - check the next issue of Cars & Parts magazine.

av
tom

Tom,

During my phone call with my father last week, he told me that he didn't
stick around the Trek repair session on John Yurconic's Series 19 long
enough to tell the group how to tighten the nut after reinstalling the
fan. He thought you might like to write up the nut removal tip for the
Franklin Service Station and add this to it. I offered to send it to you
by e-mail.

To tighten the nut, place the wrench handle under the other side of the
frame (i.e., under the right headlight), put the transmission into high
gear, then try to rock the car backwards.

Pretty handy tip to apply if you're caught with a parking lot (or Trek
green) repair and lack all of the tools of a properly outfitted garage!

Marlene

ANSWER: Distributor specs.

Factory advance curve for 1930 Delco Remy distributor. Series 145 - 147 Delco Remy advance specification. Taken from Factory test lab info.
Rpm degrees, + or - 2 degrees.
0 0.0
400 0.0
800 7.0
1200 13.5
1600 20.0
2000 26.5
2400 29.0
Hope this helps.

Paul Fitz.

Sept. 6, 2002

QUESTION: Distributor specs.

Hi Tom,
I finally got myself a Franklin; a 1930 Series 147 4dr. It needs lots of TLC! Do you have mechanical advance specs. or curves for the distributor? I'm the guy that helped Mike West with his '05 cross engine rebuild.
Russ Laidlaw wrlaid@direcpc.com

ANSWER: Distributor specs.

Hi Russ -

Congratulations on the 147 - you should have a ball with that car,

I do not have published distributor advance specs, but these are the numbers I usually come up with when testing a stock setup:

DISTRIBUTOR RPM ADVANCE (degrees)
250 0
500 6
750 9
1000 14
1250 15
1500 15

It might be worth noting that with close to stock compression ratios, I have found no gain in horsepower by changing the curve much, or by deviating much from factory specs. We have run one very high compression ratio car that did require some modification to the timing. Otherwise, it seems that these engines run best at the factory spec. I think the combustion chamber shape has a lot to do with it.

I hope this helps -

tom

QUESTION: CLUTCH REMOVAL

TOM: We got the trans. out manually. I took off everything I could including the brake drum,
leaving the top four boltds holding to engine. Took two of these out then Mark, my neighbor, got in
next to the trans and supported it while I took out the last two. Then he slid it out and set it on
the floor. We then disassembled and removed the cross shaft. We lifted it up onto the seatframe
and I picked it up and set it on the floor. Not really that heavy with as much iron removed as
possible. It now goes to Bombardier facility at Bradley Airport to be degreased! All this becuz I
went over to his house to give them some tomatoes. Tomorrow I start looking at getting the clutch
out. G.

QUESTION: CLUTCH REMOVAL

Tomatoes, huh? I gotta try that one. Do you think if I gave my chrome plater some nice Minnesota sweet corn I could get my headlamps replated??
tom

Sept. 5, 2002

QUESTION: brake lining for the series 11 and earlier cars

In response to the tech questions and replies here about a source of brake lining for the series 11 and earlier cars, there has been reports of various types of non- asbestos lining materials tried with poor to mediocre results.

I contacted my supplier of brake lining material and discussed with him what I knew was being used and what the results were. His recommendation was ordered and received in time to install it on Dick Moffat's '22 Demi sedan in West Stockbridge, Mass. The foot brake on Dick's '22 needed re-lining and he was kind enough (brave enough ?) to let me try this lining on his car. Results of his test drive, part way up and back down the very long hill next to his house, are that he says the car has never stopped this well before.

I was concerned about the possability that the lining would initially work well, but then fade as repeated stops were made on hills. This has been reported to happen with some other types of non- asbestos lining material used on contracting brakes. I asked Dick to go out again and REALLY ride the brake coming down from the top of that same long hill. He returned back with a smile on his face as smoke poured off the drum from under the car. No brake fade with the brake lining and drum hot enough to burn off the old grease from the universal joint that had accumulated on the inside surface of the drum ! Stops well, no fade and no chattering or squealing !

One of the main problems with this type of brake is that they look easy to work on, but I rarely find them done right. Expanding brake systems are much easier and forgiving to install linings on then contracting brake systems. There may be other types or brands of lining material that work as well as what I installed, but poor installation will not get the best results from any lining, even original asbestos.

For anyone contemplating this as a do - it - yourself project, the lining has to be properly fitted to the brake band that is smooth and concentric with the drum. It then has to be fitted to the drum on the car. Sounds simple, but there is much more to it. If you have never done it , then take it to someone who has the correct equipment and know-how to do contracting brakes systems.

The name of this type non - asbestos lining is RNAW Woven. It is a premium grade lining, sold by the foot.

The name of my supplier is:

Industrial Friction Materials Co.
P.O.Box 120,
East Hampton, Ct. 06424 - 0120
Ask for Joe Goodreau
1- 888 - 508 - 3794
860 - 267 - 1901
Fax 860 - 267 - 7393

Anyone with questions can contact me at:

607 - 674 - 9432
airiscool@clarityconnect.com
Safe motoring,
Paul Fitz.

Sept. 1, 2002

QUESTION:1917 9-A Rod re-installation: Torque spec. advice

Hello. Tom:
Thanks for your Great referral to Harkin Machine! Rod job looks
super. Now to re-assemble: Ought we to be working with a torque-
down target for: esp. the bearing retention bolts on the rod's big
end? Likewise on cylinder to crankcase? &, what might I have
forgotten to ask/mention?
With A V Thanks,
--Dana Roberts

ANSWER:1917 9-A Rod re-installation: Torque spec. advice

Hi Dana,
Glad to hear the rods came out o.k. You want to stay fairly light on the torque on these rods. 25 - 30 ft lbs is sufficient. Be sure all hardware is in good condition - watch for stretched bolts. If you cannot get a cotter pin hole in the nut to align with the hole in the bolt, swap nuts around, or lap the nut to get the proper alignment at 25 - 30 ft/lbs, then cotter pin securely - old hat, I'm sure, but I always mention it.
Cylinder base nuts are cyanide heat treated and fairly tough. It's not usually feasible to get a torque wrench on all the base nuts, so I do not recommend a specific torque. Just know that they are sufficiently strong to allow snugging them up well, then locking with the 2nd nut, of course. I've not yet broken a stud when tightening a cylinder base, but I know it can happen and is no fun to repair, so don't go beyond recommended torque specs for that size fastener, but make them good and tight. How's that for a direct answer?!

I think it was a Rolls/Royce carburetor rebuild article I read once where the author prescribed tightening the cover screws until they break, then backing off a quarter turn. Nice method, if you can get away with it.

What else? - When tightening the wrist pin clamp bolt, be sure to support the wrist pin with a drift inside the pin to avoid imparting a twist to the rod. Lock this with loctite, wire, or a tab lock washer - you don't want this bolt to come loose. Again, 30 ft/lbs is sufficient. The wrist pins can be distorted if too much clamping force is put on this bolt.

QUESTION: advise on the clutch

Hi Tom: Got home from the TREK ok except that Betrha's clutch let go 8 mi. from home, so had
towed. I had been suspicious of the fabric rings in the clutch for a long time and this just
requires me to do now what I would do "when I get to it." Think I have lined up the tools and have
rings.

I assume I'll have to raise the car to get the tranny out. Correct?

What about a pilot shaft for aligning the disc when reinstalling?

Will check friction discs for wear.

Any specific advise on the clutch? I've replaced them in aircooled VWs but not Fs.

On the tranny, u said modern seals can be installed with relatively simple machining so need details
on that job. Have never had one of these apart.

The usual thanks for your advise. G.

ANSWER: advise on the clutch

It's not such a bad job to replace/repair. Sometimes the pressure plates are found to be cracked on the Ser 12 & earlier Brown-Lipe clutches, otherwise it's pretty straightforward. Many people get hung up on the throw-out bearing release fork. You must remember to drive out the tapered pin holding the stop-tab on the right side of the clutch release shaft, outside of the bell housing.

You do not need to raise the car to remove the trans. Pull the driveshaft, floorboard & toe boards, front seat cushion, then disconnect al the obvious stuff. When I was younger, I could straddle the transmission from above, pull it back and lower it to the floor. Nowadays I use a jack, as any pressure on the input shaft is likely to warp the clutch disc. Some clever people place long studs in a couple trans housing to engine bell hosing holes to allow them to slide the trans back until the input shaft is clear without worrying about placing a load on the input shaft.

When you re-line the clutch, be sure the new linings are 1/8". They should be 0.125". They can be as thick as 0.130", but NO MORE, or the clutch will not release.

A pilot shaft is helpful when assembling the clutch to the flywheel. You can sometimes rent one, or maybe your clutch shop has one you can borrow. I never used to have one, just muscled the trans in place and wobbled, rocked and operated the clutch by hand until I got it to sink into place. It's much easier with an alignment tool of course. That's no guarantee it won't still need jostling, wobbling, etc.

Transmission input and output seals are placed in the bearing retainer caps from the inside of the cap - removal is necessary. I don't have seal part numbers handy - get back to me if you go this route and I'll find them, we've done seals on a couple Ser. 11's.

tom

QUESTION:12a U.2. carb.

Hi Tom Enjoyed the trek once again, but it is now back to the grindstone as they say. I have been to four car shows since I came back, and have two shows per week booked right up to mid October now. My car seems to be fine, we know that the compression,valves,timing are all fine , but at the top end of the engine revs 45/50 I do feel a uneven flutter it certainly is not as even and smooth as 35/40. U 2. Carb after tweeking it a quarter turn either way I feel that I am getting the best performance that I can with it but I am not sure if I have got the float set right? would this make a differance at the top end ? as explained . Could you please tell me the in/s and outs of setting the float, measurments, and if I am on the right track to make it a smoother engine Hope all is well with you. regards Eric

ANSWER:12a U.2. carb.

Eric -

Four car shows since the Trek? I like your kind of grindstone!

Does this 'flutter' at 45-50 change under varying throttle positions? Does it smooth out with full throttle?

It could be float level, does not hurt to check, but I wonder if it's a separate carb problem. On the U-2, remove the float cover and hold inverted. Measure between the float top and the inside cover surface. It should be 3/64", book spec.

I have found that sometimes a U-2 conversion needs a bit of jet fussing. You've already got an adjustable main jet, you might need to fuss with the economizer jet as well. This is why I ask about full throttle characteristics. Double check the float level and then get back to me regarding other symptoms.

It was great to see you at the Trek - I wish we had found more opportunities to chat.

tom

QUESTION: Side Draft Stoplight Switch

Stoplight switch replacement on my '32 Airman that works is
NAPA ECHLIN SL113
Replacement needed because old one left stoplights on all the time.
Magic word to NAPA counterman was "Chrysler" although "Franklin" was used.
Hope data helps someone.

ANSWER: Side Draft Stoplight Switch

Tony -

You'll find that if you use DOT 5 brake fluid, you'll need to replace the switch about every 2 years as the diaphragm swells and loses it's travel, increasing the pressure needed to trip the switch.

August 24, 2002

MORE ON THE SERIES 9 CYLINDERS AND MISC

Tom- Checked the timing and was slightly amazed to see the mark about 6" ahead of the pointer. adjusted it to about an inch, and the car idles much smoother. It's also much quieter with the exhaust crossover blocked off. I readjusted the valve lash, and it runs smooth and quiet.

Put some miles on it last weekend; I'm starting to get the shifting down. It struggles up the hills some, but not surprising with 25 hp and at 7000' elevation.

It should be ready for you Southwest tour soon.

Thanks for all your help- Rob

MORE ON THE SERIES 9 CYLINDERS AND MISC

Rob -

I'm glad to hear it's up and running, and running strongly to boot! You should be impressed at how well it rides & handles, the Series 9 was really one of the best efforts the company put together, in terms of handling, there was not a car on the road that could best it.

You can simply block off the exhaust crossover as it's not really needed. You may need to remove the pipe to effect a good seal. Do whatever you need to, it just makes annoying noise.

The flywheel is marked on the backside. it is viewed by removing the upper toe board, swiveling the clutch & flywheel access panel out of the way. The marks are stamped into the back face as well as the rim of the flywheel and are very hard to see unless cleaned. There are lots of marks for upper dead center for the various cylinder pairs as well as valve openings and closings. Find DC 1-6 for your ignition reference and make a nice mark on it. I like to use a dab of red paint. Directly above the flywheel on the upper shrouding is a pointer formed in the shrouding. The simplest method is to use a timing light in this area after the marks have been located. I don't have the timing specs with me now, but I'm sure it is something like 1 - 1 1/2" ahead of center at idle.

The float level is not too hard to adjust, but rarely requires adjusting unless components within the carb have been changed. If the float level is too high, fuel will drip out of the main jet and onto the floor when standing still, engine off, gas valve open. This is assuming the needle valve seats properly.

When all is right, most needle valves run about 1/2 turn open. If the level is low, you may find you need to run it 3/4 turn, or more at speed.

Proper setting of the float level is achieved by:
Run engine to get even float level in bowl, shut off, close valve under vacuum tank

Remove float bowl cover, leave float and needle in place

Measure from the top of the float chamber to the level of the fuel in bowl with a caliper - record.

Remove carb, measure from top of carb flange down to tip of carb spray nozzle in main throat with caliper - record

Measure from top of carb flange to top of float bowl - record.

Calculate distance of top of fuel from top of spray nozzle (You're a physicist, right?)

Fuel should be about 1/32" below top of nozzle. This is adjusted by turning the nuts on the needle valve. They are sensitive, make small corrections. Raising the nuts lowers float level. You can bench check fuel level using gasoline and a gravity source, or I use clean parts washer solvent which gives a pretty accurate reading, even though it has a slightly different density.

Check the ignition first - it's easier!

For poor idle, you might also try a bit more plug gap and should check the ignition point gap as well.

They sure are nice cars when running right, aren't they? It's a dream of mine to tour the desert southwest in Series 9's. I'd like to get 4, or 5 cars together and spend 4 or 5 days touring back country. At this stage it's just a dream, but someday.....

tom

QUESTIONS/ANSWERS: 1931 FRANKLIN DASH

The spark control knob is stuck in this position. Is this a problem? When I push it in, it springs back out to this position. It's not a problem as long as the initial spark setting is correct. You'll have to check the timing - now that you have the book, you can read up on it.

By the way......Mr. Davis sent the 145/147 Manual overnight to me. Nice man! You can say that again. Lloyd does an incredible service to the Club and it's members and is a heckuva good guy to boot! Wow....tons of information in here! I want to completely overhaul the brakes. What is the best way to go about it? Any kits for the master and wheel cylinders? Napa has kits, I don't recall the wheel cylinder kit numbers, they're standard fare for 1 1/4" wheel cylinders, but the master cylinder kit number is MK1, or just Napa #1.

You can buy new wheel cylinders - this is a good approach. Or you should have the old cylinders sleeved in stainless steel. You will have to have the master cylinder sleeved as replacement parts are not available. When you disassemble these parts after sitting for as long as the car sat, they WILL be pitted and corroded, the MUST be sleeved, or replaced. You can send these parts to Brake & Equipment Warehouse, 455 Harrison St. NE, Minneapolis, MN 55413, Telephone: 612-378-3141 Attention to ROB - referral from Odyssey. You will likely need new brake hoses as well - try Roberts Motor Sports 800-231-3180. I have not tried these guys, but the word is they have the parts.

Don't mess around with the brakes - do them once & do them right. You can also put on larger wheel cylinders on the front wheels - 1 3/8" diameter instead of the 1 1/4" original. The larger cylinders give a noticeable improvement in braking performance. As far as I know right now, the only place to get proper wheel cylinders is from a Bumper to Bumper parts store. WC1430 is the front, 1 3/8" cylinder, WC695 is the rear and original front.

If you send you cylinders to Brake& Equipment warehouse, they can supply the rebuild kits as well. They can also assemble them, returning a completed, rebuilt component. This might be the best route for you to take. Also, they can re-line the shoes, if needed.

I will be at the Trek until Monday the 19th. If you need some help before then, better call me today!

Good luck Frank!

tom

QUESTION: SERIES 9 CYLINDERS AND MISC

Tom- Just took the Franklin around the block. It has good power, and it was great to finally be able to drive it. I'm impressed at how well it rides and handles. New pistons and valves have made a big difference.

Only a couple of warts. The exhaust 'crossover', which warms the intake manifold, leaks a fair amount. Not sure what to do about this except fiddle with it to try to get it to seal. The actual crossover pip looks to be homemade.

The engine runs smoothly above idle, but is a bit unhappy idling. It's pretty sensitive to the mixture adjustment rod setting. Runs best at idle at about /2 turn open. It seems to be 'hunting' at idle, so I suspect the timing is too close to TDC. Any idea where the marks are on this engine? The manual says there is a mark on the fan and one on the housing, but I haven't found them.

I haven't done anything to the carburetor, but will start looking at it. Is it easy to adjust the float level?

Thanks much- Rob

ANSWER: SERIES 9 CYLINDERS AND MISC